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Just when I thought things were going well....

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lesingepsycho

Jedi Warrior
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/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif I made a discouraging discovery today. I think I may have a blown head gasket but I would like to get some of your opinions to confirm my suspicions. The first thing that drew my attention was the fact that there was a whitish-grey buildup of foam up inside the oil filler cap. I've heard before that this is a sign of water in the oil. Next I noticed a few drops of water and oil right next to the engine ID tag right at the mating surface of the head and the engine. I initially dismissed this as residue from oil changes and the recently installed thermostat. I pulled the plugs and they all looked nicely brown except number one which was black and wet (right below ID tag). Also, there is the infamous white smoke on startup now. I just replaced the water pump and reinstalled a thermostat after long having run without one. I've read now that often times a head gasket will blow shortly after making fixes to the cooling system. So am I right? What do I need to know about replacing the head gasket? What's the best gasket? How long should I scheduel the operation for? And here's the dummy question: Can driving a car with a blown head gasket do further damage? (I ask because the leak seems very minor, the car is still running relatively strongly and I don't know how long I've been driving the car with the blown head gasket so if I can anticipate any further damage...) Thanks in advance everybody!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif And just when I thought I had replaced everything and had a reliable daily driver! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cryin.gif But after this I'll be good for a long time to come, right? RIGHT?

JACK
 
Right.
 
bummer Jack....

I've known people to replace them in a weekend without really knowing what they were doing, so I wouldn't be too afraid of this job.

Now if it were a 2004 honda I'd be crying too, but these older cars don't scare me as much....

Regarding doing more damage, I'd be worried about coolant entering the combustion chamber and then bending my intake and exhaust valves, which makes the job that much more fun...
 
Yes you will do further damage if you keep running it. You said you have been running it without a waterpump? Or were you running it with a leaky waterpump? If you overheated the engine that will/can blow a head gasket and/or warp the head among many other bad things. Anyway, if you have foam at the breather cap you have water in the oil. Running it with water in the oil will eventually take out your bearings, pistons & rings. Today just about all headgaskets are the same but you need a new one. Depends on your mechanical capability as to how much time it will take. A good mechanic should be able to pull the head and re-install it in an hour. Drain the cooling system, drain your oil, remove the valve cover, thermostat cover, Sending unit for the temp guage, remove the spark plugs & wires, pull the valve train off, remove the pushrods (I keep them in the order they were pulled), unbolt and remove the head. While the head is off have it checked to see if it is not warped. If it is okay, clean all the surfaces and re-install everything. Torque the head to specs, refill the cooling system and add fresh oil. After running it a bit drain the water and oil as both systems need to be flushed to get the water and oil out of each. You may have to do this a couple of times depending on how much got into each system.
 
I would not be afraid of replacing the hed gasket. it's a pretty easy job on an older car like a Midget. Now a modern car??? forget it. I tried that once.... Once.

Biff gives great advice. Don't run the engine until you get this situation resolved. Doing so could bend valves, connecting rods, etc.
 
Thanks everybody. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif It sounds like everybody is confirming my suspicions.... I HATE BEING RIGHT....sometimes /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/wink.gif Well, the weather is nice here lately and I've been giving too much attention to the MG and haven't rode the motorcycle yet so I'll hop on the bike and hit up the brit parts house today and get started. I think I can do it somewhere in between the suggested one hour to one weekend! I've replaced the heads on my Mustang before so I know the work is no big deal. All the crying was more just for the frustration of thinking I had everything licked and then something else pops up. NOW, on the other hand, I too tried ONCE to help a buddy of mine change a cylinder head on a '85 Accord. When he pulled out the sledge hammer and sawzall and started to go to town on the emission control pieces that were "in the way" I knew it was a bad sign. I helped him out for an hour or two, wincing the whole time. Needless to say he sold his custom wheels and stereo and then scrap heaped the car. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/rolleyes.gif

JACK
 
Before you pull the head.....
This time of year, milky *stuff* inside the oil cap and valve cover might jusy be simple condensation.
It's cold out, you fire up a cold engine, it warms up and any water vapor shows up at the upper most part. Oil cap!
Also you might just habe condensation dripping off something outside the engine too. You should see the hose running along my head, it's dripping!! And it's not raining.
Take a torch to a piece of cold dry steel and watch the condensation. Now picture how much steel is in your engine.
Wipe off the mung on the cap, warm up the engine, wipe it off again. Maybe pull the v/c off and wipe it out too.
Check your oil, it should NOT have any milky *stuff* in it.
But the dip stick top might have the same condensation.
Steam out of the tail pipe this time of year should end once the car warms up, unless it's really damp and cold out.
If not, or it's alot of steam compared to other cars, you may have blown a gasket.
As Biff mentioned, it's not a big deal. I have done it on the side of the road once, at a car show once, and yes it should take about an hour. Maybe 2 if you never did it on a Midget before.
A real time saver is to remove the carbs together with the intake but leave the cables in tact. set em on the fender well as they come off at the head. Never disconnect the exhaust either, unbolt the manifolds from the head and just pull them clear so you can pop the head.
But DO double check before you pull the head. You may not have too.

Frank
 
I agree that it just might be condesation, especially this time of year. If there is no water mixed with the oil in the oil pan, I would do some further checking before I pulled the head. Have you checked the compression of each cylinder? A low reading on one or two cylinders could signal a blown head gasket. Do you see air bubbles in the radiator, a sign of head gasket problems? Also, To check if it is condensation, run the engine until it is warm, then pull and clean inside of the valve cover of all the crud. Replace the valve cover and run the engine again to determine if you are still getting water inside the valve cover. If the engine is warm, you should not continue to get condensation there.
 
Well, I went ahead and did the cylinder head gasket replacement. As I imagined I fell comfortably in between the one hour to one weekend estimate at just about 5 hours. During that 5 hours I also stopped to have dinner and BS with some of my roomates. I took extra time to make sure everything was cleaned very well as I went. End result is it seems to run smoother than it did before. Easier starting, easier idling. I haven't driven it yet but I let it run and get it up to temp so I could get everything re-torqued. Anyways, I'm glad I did it because at least now I know for sure that I've got a new healthy head gasket in there. Thanks for all the info and encouragement. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif

JACK
 
Usually with a blown head gasket, you can see the path where the leak is. Could you see it?
 
Super 7,
I thought that was generally the case but when I took the head off the gasket peeled a little bit with parts sticking to the block and parts on the head. It didn't totally tear apart but I couldn't quite tell anywhere that looked like the culprit. I'm still not so sure that spritenut and shorn weren't on to something because I didn't really see too much coolant in the oil and not much oil in the coolant that I drained off so the gasket may not have been blown after all. It may have been simply condensation but like I said, now I can sleep easy and drive around without worry. Now I know I've got a good fresh gasket in that I personally installed to my level of perfection, etc etc. Anyways, if I get a chance, I'll try and post a pic of the gasket and see if anybody can spot something on it that I couldn't.

JACK
 
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