TR6 Is This a Fair Price for TR-6?

[JoePa]

Hello - My name is Joe and I am new to the forum. I found a 1972 TR-6 that is all original, rust free (one small spot on rocker panel), great looking paint, new tires, excellent interior & top, very clean engine compartment, everything works as it should and the car runs beautiful. I think I was expecting such a car to run approx. $8K due to the clean, but unrestored condition. However, the seller is asking $12K and is rather firm. I have searched forums and online for sale sites both private and dealers. Excluding the dealers since they tend to be in the $15-20K range in many cases, the private sales seem to fall in the $5-9K range unrestored and in need of some work. I realize this is a very tough question not seeing the car, but does $12K seem too high considering the description? I even went to eBay to look at current and closed auctions. In cases where sellers were asking, for example, $12-15K the Best Offers seem to be under $10K (closed auctions that did not sell). Part of me is starting to think that the price, though at the high end of the range, can be justified since so many do require a lot of work and have severe rust issues. I like that the car under consideration is all original and use caution when I see a car advertised as restored since many are not done to the highest of standards. Thank you in advance for your opinions. Thanks! Joe

 

[NutmegCT]

Hi Joe - welcome to BCF.

You're right, without us seeing the car and knowing its details, we can't really make a completely valid statement on value. BUT ... if it really *is* in excellent condition, and has all the documentation for maintenance and repairs since new, it very well may be worth $12K. Value is in the eye of the buyer *and* seller.

How long has the seller owned the car?

Tom

 

[Gliderman8]

Have you actually inspected the car? Areas like the trailing arms are prone to rust as well as the inner front wings. I suggest you find someone who knows the car have a look at it. Possibly a local Triumph club in your area could offer some expertise.
"Great looking paint" on a 40 year old car may mean that it was recently repainted... Get another pair of eyes to have a look.... it can only help.

 

[DNK]

Rust on the outside rocker could be worse on the inside.
Did you pull the carpets?

 

[JoePa]

Thank you all for responding so quickly. It is a Damson red car on a popular auction site, but I do not want to provide any more details at the risk of violating forum rules. I am too far away to inspect the car in person so have been asking many very specific questions.

Hi Joe - welcome to BCF.

You're right, without us seeing the car and knowing its details, we can't really make a completely valid statement on value. BUT ... if it really *is* in excellent condition, and has all the documentation for maintenance and repairs since new, it very well may be worth $12K. Value is in the eye of the buyer *and* seller.

How long has the seller owned the car?

Tom

Thank you, Tom. To be honest I did not ask about documentation or how long he has owned it. Great feedback, thanks.

Have you actually inspected the car? Areas like the trailing arms are prone to rust as well as the inner front wings. I suggest you find someone who knows the car have a look at it. Possibly a local Triumph club in your area could offer some expertise.
"Great looking paint" on a 40 year old car may mean that it was recently repainted... Get another pair of eyes to have a look.... it can only help.

Thank you. To be honest I am still in the stages of inquiring as the car is not local. I think I have asked all of the correct questions related to problem areas for rust to which the seller said nothing except a quarter size bubble on rocker. I asked about these areas specifically:
1. The rear suspension trailing arms and differential where attached to the frame. Any other undercarriage areas of concern.
2. The top of rear deck at the seams between the deck panels and fenders.
3. Under the carpets at the front of foot wells, underneath the driver's pedals, and along the seat rails?
4. Front quarter panels behind the wheels, particularly where it meets the firewall.
5. Behind the rear wheels, all the way back to the rear valence, around the tops of that portion of the tail light which wraps around the side of the fender (inside & outside of panels).
6. Around the battery box, and under the hydraulic master cylinders.

Seller said car was not repainted and at this time can only go by the pictures provided.

Rust on the outside rocker could be worse on the inside.
Did you pull the carpets?

I have not seen the car in person as of yet. At this time relying on seller's word that the floors and rockers under the carpet (incl. around seat tracks) are rust free.

Thank you!

 

[NutmegCT]

OK - step one, you found what might be a *great* car for you.

Step two: have someone you trust inspect the car for you. $12K is a lot of money - might be worth asking someone who knows TR6s (a BCF member in the area?) to take a look.

Step three: never buy a car you - or someone you trust - haven't seen. Unless you're very very lucky, there will be some unpleasant surprises. A few guys here can testify to that!

Let us know if we can help.
Tom
PS - if the seller hasn't owned the car for long, or if he's reluctant to have a personal inspection - you need to weigh the "wow - what a great looking set of pictures!" factor against "but I don't really know anything except what he's telling me" factor.

 

[Gliderman8]

One more question: Does it have overdrive?

 

[Geo Hahn]

...Step three: never buy a car you - or someone you trust - haven't seen. Unless you're very very lucky, there will be some unpleasant surprises. A few guys here can testify to that!

Good advice -- which I have ignored twice.

The first time I bought sight-unseen (from an island in the Pacific) the car was so great I knew I'd used up all my ebay good luck and better quit while I was ahead. Then, 12 years later, I must have decided that my luck quotient had been refilled because I did it again (from the wilds of the Pacific Northwest) with another great result.

I, too, prefer original cars over cars that have been restored -- just feel like I can know more about what I'm getting. This still relies on the seller being honest in their description -- but on a restored car there are many more areas where the seller can claim they didn't know about a concealed problem.

I know of no forum rule that would prohibit you linking to the auction site (indeed, the mildly curious can probably find it from your description) -- doing that may get you many more comments but I'm not sure (at this point) it would help.

What would help is if someone was willing to take a look at it for you. They may be unable or unwilling to do a thorough inspection but they could at least meet the seller and confirm some of the basic claims made as well as just get a sense of how the car is in person. You could ask here on the Forum for someone to take a look. I would (and have) done this for cars in Tucson but if the car is in, say, the Detroit area, you might contact the local club.

BTW -- When I look at a car for someone else I never attempt to answer the question you have asked: 'is it a fair price?' -- but rather just be their eyes & ears. Only you can decide if the price is fair.

Best of luck -- sight-unseen purchasing can be a gut-wrenching process with great results, but it's not for everyone.

PS -- If I am looking at the right car, it is indeed a good-looking example. I try to take everything into account: seller's tone of voice, background in the pictures (I'm a sucker for a little dog), area where the seller lives, ebay selling history (does he flip cars or is this his one and only car sold on ebay), other cars in his garage -- the car I'm thinking of had lots of positives in the photos (apart from the car itself).

 

[poolboy]

Whatever car you buy, don't let the purchase price fool you. Unless you buy it and just stow it away, figure on spending at least 1000 dollars a year for the next 3 or 4 years..at least.
These cars are old and what's fine today may break or wear out tomorrow if the car is driven enough.
Just ask yourself at what lenghts would you go to avoid making the mistake of paying 12000 dollars for a 6000 dollar car.

 

[JoePa]

Thank you all for taking the time to respond! I do agree that value is a personal assessment. I am really trying to determine whether the price, if the details are indeed accurate, falls within a resonable range that other knowledgeable enthusiasts have experienced or heard of for a car of this condition.


NutmegCT - That is great advice. I wish the car was local as it would make this much easier. I am relying on pictures and seller responses which is a bit nerve-racking to say the least. I have been looking for quite some time and only a handful have gotten my attention. Unfortunately, they are always so far away and with an auction, for example, time is limited which adds another layer of complexity.

Gliderman8 - No, it does not have overdrive ( I meant to include that detail.. sorry!)

Geo Hahn - It is funny because I pointed out the same things to my wife when viewing the pictures trying to get a sense of who the seller is. I will post the auction link and if anyone knows the car or is in the area willing to take a look it would be most appreciated.

https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/...61056939366&ssPageName=ADME:X:RTQ:MOTORS:1123

 

[Geo Hahn]

Well now the cat's out of the bag.

Yeah, the general feeling in the pictures is of someone selling a car they no longer need and just wanting what they believe is a fair price -- not a car flipper and probably doesn't desperately need to sell.

Anyway, I like what I see there.

 

[luke44]

In the Porsche world, a purchase is unheard of without a PPI - Pre Purchase Inspection. The way it works is a local 3rd party inspects the car - ideally a local specialist of the marque, but with a TR6 any vintage shop in the area should be able to do this (the big box retail chains won't mess with this). Even if you invested in a ticket to go see it in person, unless you know the marque really well, know what to look for, and have access to a hoist, you can only go on gut instinct.

Typically it is a cost (to the buyer) of $100-125.00 and runs the shop 1-1.5 hours. Then you know what you're buying in a report - is it a color change? Does it have a whiny rear end or trans? Rust? Serious accident repairs? As noted earlier there could be a lot of lurking items - eBay pix are really worthless - the small rocker panel rust can be hiding a lot worse condition underneath, and the structural locating points are a deal breaker - neither of which you can see. Otherwise it is a lot of money on what is essentially a crap shoot.

A serious buyer and a serious seller would expect and accept the inspection. Unless it's a smoking obvious deal, this is just sound business. If the PPI doesn't work out, yes, you are out the money, but are ahead in the long run. Or you re-negotiate the price to allow for what is found.

Having said all that, and assuming it passes the PPI, the price looks pretty reasonable to me. I myself owned a '72 (check my website - gone but not forgotten), and my personal taste runs to the earlier versions, pre big bumperettes.

Good luck with it and welcome aboard.

 

[tomshobby]

Joe, how do you want to use your car? I bought mine mainly for touring and paid $12,000 for it and then did a serious engine build for dependable touring.
The colored areas are where we have traveled so far. And a photo on Mt Rainer with our trailer. I am happy with the result.



So decide how you want to use your car. Then buy one that best fits that need. I would be leery of statements like "I rebuilt my engine" or "I rebuilt my transmission". In my case I knew the engine was in need of a rebuild but I would have had mine built anyway so it was not important to me. Other things were so I focused on those things.

 

[JoePa]

In the Porsche world, a purchase is unheard of without a PPI - Pre Purchase Inspection. The way it works is a local 3rd party inspects the car - ideally a local specialist of the marque, but with a TR6 any vintage shop in the area should be able to do this (the big box retail chains won't mess with this). Even if you invested in a ticket to go see it in person, unless you know the marque really well, know what to look for, and have access to a hoist, you can only go on gut instinct.

Typically it is a cost (to the buyer) of $100-125.00 and runs the shop 1-1.5 hours. Then you know what you're buying in a report - is it a color change? Does it have a whiny rear end or trans? Rust? Serious accident repairs? As noted earlier there could be a lot of lurking items - eBay pix are really worthless - the small rocker panel rust can be hiding a lot worse condition underneath, and the structural locating points are a deal breaker - neither of which you can see. Otherwise it is a lot of money on what is essentially a crap shoot.

A serious buyer and a serious seller would expect and accept the inspection. Unless it's a smoking obvious deal, this is just sound business. If the PPI doesn't work out, yes, you are out the money, but are ahead in the long run. Or you re-negotiate the price to allow for what is found.

Having said all that, and assuming it passes the PPI, the price looks pretty reasonable to me. I myself owned a '72 (check my website - gone but not forgotten), and my personal taste runs to the earlier versions, pre big bumperettes.

Good luck with it and welcome aboard.

Hi Bruce - Thank you. I considered asking the seller if he would agree to the service offered through eBay from Inspect My Ride. However, figured that they likely do not know the particulars of every make/model/year. I do not get the feeling that they send out specialized inspectors.

Joe, how do you want to use your car? I bought mine mainly for touring and paid $12,000 for it and then did a serious engine build for dependable touring.
The colored areas are where we have traveled so far. And a photo on Mt Rainer with our trailer. I am happy with the result.

View attachment 27997View attachment 27998

So decide how you want to use your car. Then buy one that best fits that need. I would be leery of statements like "I rebuilt my engine" or "I rebuilt my transmission". In my case I knew the engine was in need of a rebuild but I would have had mine built anyway so it was not important to me. Other things were so I focused on those things.

Hi Tom - This would be a car to enjoy with my Dad. He had one when I was a kid and always wanted to get another, but never treats himself. I am looking to buy it for him as a retirement gift and enjoy it together. All driving would be local and for pure enjoyment.

 

[3798j]

Glad to see the rear suspension's camber can be adjusted. It's way too positive as it sits (IMO).

 

[tomshobby]

Hi Tom - This would be a car to enjoy with my Dad. He had one when I was a kid and always wanted to get another, but never treats himself. I am looking to buy it for him as a retirement gift and enjoy it together. All driving would be local and for pure enjoyment.

Excellent!

 

[NutmegCT]

Hi Tom - This would be a car to enjoy with my Dad. He had one when I was a kid and always wanted to get another, but never treats himself. I am looking to buy it for him as a retirement gift and enjoy it together. All driving would be local and for pure enjoyment.

That's another plus! Driving it, and working on it, with your Dad is priceless. Of course, you don't want it to be a disaster where you feel cheated, and you both soon get frustrated and lose interest.

Really, if it were me, I'd do my best to get those answers from the seller (how long owned, records, etc.) and have someone you trust do an inspection. I can vouch for the generic inspectors, who know little about the car. You need a TR6 guy near where the car is. By the way, consider the "make an offer" possibility - after you get your answers. And keep in mind - it's not the only TR6 for sale.



Tom

 

[NutmegCT]

Joe - I just sent you a PM (private message). One way to get the PM is by clicking the Notifications icon at the top of the page.

Tom

 

[JoePa]

My apologies for the delay, Tom. I just saw your IM and responded. Thank you. Joe

 

[glemon]

I may be wrong, but based on the pics, I think it likely was resprayed, the paint just looks awful shiny with discernible scratches, dents etc. If they did it right not necessarily a bad thing, but if repainted you always need to be sure they didn't hide anything. I will add that I have bought three cars sight unseen, and never did have an independent third party, the first one I bought, a 99 maxima I got in 2002 or so, was perfect and still my daily driver to this day, didn't give me a bit of trouble from the 40,000 miles up to about 100K when the ignition coils started flaking out. The second was a Toyota I bought for the wife, when I flew down to pick it up and pay the man (maybe a little stupid, but not that stupid) It was obvious the car had had a terrible crash, airbag deployment etc. I walked, or rather flew, away. The third was the current TR250, it was worse than described, but I was planning on re-doing it all, so didn't worry about it too much. But if I were buying an older car especially, that I expected to be done right and pretty much ready to go I would have someone do a pre-purchase inspection.