Is it worth it to go completely original?

[jdubois]

My new Spit is pretty darn original, but the more I poke into it the more I see places that could be put back. If some of you have been following my starter thread, you know I've been agonizing over whether the newly dead starter was the original one or not. But the two most obvious places to put back to original are the tires and battery. I discovered I can get reproductions of the factory Dunlop C41 bias ply tires and a Lucas tar top battery, but those two things alone would set me back $1000.

Another situation, the original carpets in the car are in tatters and really need to be replaced before they completely fall apart. But it looks like all the replacement sets use carpet with small rubber pads in the footwells, while this original set has all rubber mats in the footwells. I'm guessing the only way to get those would be to have them fabricated, and I'm sure that'd be a pretty penny.

Oh, and I have other puzzles too. Like the owners manual that I received with the car is the manual from a MkI, and the car is a MkII. Now, is that possibly what came with the car due to, say, the dealer not having the correct documentation, or possibly just a manual that got married to the car at a later date? And if it is the original manual that came with the car, should I keep it with the car or find a MkII manual?

So, I guess I just wanted people's opinions as to whether it's worth it to try and get a Spitfire as original as possible, or if it would be a futile waste of time with no real return.

 

[Brosky]

I would advise you to make your car be exactly what you want it to be and enjoy it.

I want reliability, safety and performance from my car and I could care less what anyone else thinks or dislikes about it. I'll probably be dead before it goes from my garage to anyone else, so at that point I'll let them worry about it.

Now if I had a beautiful 50's XK120 or early 60's XKE, I might feel differently. Nah...........probably not.

 

[jdubois]

I would advise you to make your car be exactly what you want it to be and enjoy it.

Yeah... I think making it original as I can is what I want out of this car. I'm just hoping somebody will talk me out of it before I spend too much money /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif

 

[DrEntropy]

Not to be a killjoy, but there were too many made for 'em to be REALLY valuable. If you get it to a point where you enjoy it, make it reliable and presentable, it'll be worth about the same as if it were fitted out with "original" bits. They were meant to be driven and enjoyed. I'd say that's the whole justification for owning one. Don't expect to reap a "profit" from selling one. You'll be good to hit break-even.

 

[Andrew Mace]

IF IT WERE MY CAR....

I would not do anything that is not easily reversible. Batteries and tires are easily reversible! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

Thing is, your enjoyment level will go up about 50% with radials over original-spec. bias-ply tires. And most judges would not deduct if they are an appropriate size on an original or original-type wheel. Besides, a good percentage of Spitfires sold in the US got optional whitewall Dunlops, and they're NOT being reprodced as far as I've seen. (Your car would not have had wide whites; rather, the whitewall would be more like about 1" in width.) And as much as I enjoy originality, tar-top "Lucas" batteries are strictly for show, although I'm sure they're functional. But the 99.9% of the time you're NOT being judged in a show, the car doesn't care where the electrons come from!

Your car is a very early Mk2...early enough still to have the old-style door handles and locks. It's vaguely possible that your manual was what was available when the car was new. (Out of curiosity, is the manual for a US-spec. Spitfire? That's especially useful for the wiring diagram, since the wiring of the lights and light switches in particular is virtually unique to North America.) Otherwise, you can check to see if the manual's pictures match your radiator setup and intake/exhaust manifolds, as those are probably the most obvious differences between Spitfire 4 and Mk2.

Carpets and mats? Save the mats if there's anything left to save, but go ahead and put in a good-quality replacement carpet kit if you so desire. There was some variety of carpet types and styles in the early Spitfires. For example, a number of Spitfire 4s ("Mk1" if you will) had a "salt and pepper" carpeting: literally, grey and black speckled carpeting. You'll not find that from any supplier of replacement carpet kits, and you'll likely have a very tough time finding anything that comes close to matching. (Again out of curiosity, are the door panels original as far as you know? If so, do they have the lower front corner area "carpeted"; if so, is it black or salt-and-pepper?) Oh, and not all cars even had the rubber mats!

The very, very least of your worries is the starter. Again, it's an easily reversible modification: one wire, two bolts and several skinned knuckles!

 

[jdubois]

Not to be a killjoy, but there were too many made for 'em to be REALLY valuable.

Right, completely understood. I'm looking for this to be challenge to enjoy, and maybe show off when I'm done, not to sell. I guess that's really my major hesitation going in, is that I know full well any money I sink into it will be gone forever.

 

[jdubois]

IF IT WERE MY CAR....

I would not do anything that is not easily reversible. Batteries and tires are easily reversible! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

So... are you saying that Buick V6 I was gonna shoehorn in there like this guy is a bad idea? /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

The questions you asked in your post are great ones, but it's too late tonight for me to find the answers. I'll get back to ya tomorrow.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Not to be a killjoy, but there were too many made for 'em to be REALLY valuable. If you get it to a point where you enjoy it, make it reliable and presentable, it'll be worth about the same as if it were fitted out with "original" bits.

While I wholeheartedly agree that enjoyment is or should be the greater test of "value," I'm not sure I agree with the rest of your statement. Yes, there were a lot made, relatively speaking, but there really aren't all that many of the early cars left, and relatively few of them are anywhere near "original" or "as original" condition.

To some degree, today's buyers often seem a bit less fussy about originality than they used to. And I agree that it might take far more than it's worth to take a substantially modified Spitfire and bring it back to "original" just for that sake. But to change an original substantially when it's already survived in original condition for 40 years or more is not right to me. There are enough of the already-modified cars out there if that's what you're really into. I personally think it's a shame to take something that has survived in good original condition for its entire life, and suddenly get carried away with modifications and personalization. (I also feel that way about buildings and lots of other old stuff!)

But the bottom line is that when it's YOUR car and YOUR money, YOU really are the only one you need to answer to!!!

 

[Brosky]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] I guess that's really my major hesitation going in, is that I know full well any money I sink into it will be gone forever.[/QUOTE]

That, my friend, is what they call the "price of admission". And it will be worth every penny when you are done. Just divide the amount that you spend by the years, then months, then days that you win the car. You will see that with every passing day, it actually gets cheaper.

I know that some may not agree, but the theory works for me!

 

[Deleted member 7471]

When you compare the "price of admission" to things like green fees, club dues, clubs, lost balls, etc., the price is not all that bad. Although many indulge in both pasttimes, this helps set the perspective. This thinking helps the justification process when I'm about to embark on an online spending spree for indispensable TR items.

Besides, after a round of golf, all you have are memories while reminiscing at the 19th hole. OTH, after you get done with a 50 mile blast in your TR, you've still got a TR!

So, the money invested in the Spit isn't as "gone forever" as much as it could be.

 

[YankeeTR]

Right now keeping a Spit original is not goiing to gain you any $$$ since the cars are pretty cheap. However, sooner or later these cars will be worth more $$$ and that's when an original car will bring more money.

Try Antique Auto Battery for an original battery...way cheaper than the thieves at Moss. The battery is a focal point on your car and having a modern battery just doesn't look right IMHO.


I want to put original Dunlops on my TR2 but I can't afford the prce right now.So I'm going to use the radial I have in stock on 4.5 " wheels. I'm goiing to keep my original 4" wheels for the Dunlops when I can afford them.

 

[jdubois]

Try Antique Auto Battery for an original battery...way cheaper than the thieves at Moss.

AAB quoted me $235 yesterday. Not that much different then Moss. Anyway, I could go on a nice long diatribe about certain vendors, but I believe that's frowned upon here.

 

[Andrew Mace]

NAPA, Walmart, AutoZone and probably most other chains have black-case batteries for $40-50. Frankly, that's close enough for me for "the look" of an original battery. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

 

[LastDeadLast]

I agree with Andy.

If the original battery is that important... just get an old one (doesn't even have to work) and install it when you go to a show or something.

To me, safety comes first, for instance lighting and tire technology has improved so much since these cars were first made that it seems crazy not to use them.

My car had Michelin red lines when I bought it and those things were down right scary. Same thing goes for the headlights.

To me a well maintained, non-original higher mileage car can be worth just as much, if not more than a low mileage original... just think a 50,000 mile original car means that it wasn't driven very much.. chances are it's going to need a lotta work to even be drivable (safely).

In addition, well done modifications can really increase the fun-factor of these cars while still not greatly affecting the value and/or reliability.

Just my .02.

 

[jdubois]

To me a well maintained, non-original higher mileage car can be worth just as much, if not more than a low mileage original...

I agree, it's obvious that little changes and updates will make a more fun, more drivable car. It makes total and complete sense that most people correctly choose that route. That, in fact, is exactly the route I took with my Ferrari, where the market is all stupidly abuzz with low mileage originality. I bought a higher mileage driver for a huge discount and I think I got a great car that's tons of fun. But... is there value in choosing the other route as well? I certainly don't need the car for transportation, and don't even need it as a fun car, I've got four other cars, and I think I'll enjoy the challenge.

 

[70herald]

$1000 for not very good tires an a reproduction battery??? No way. While I am really trying to keep my Herald as reasonably original as possible, I have no problem at all, replacing parts which NORMALLY WEAR OUT. After all normal cars (not 30+ year old classics) all go through several sets of tires and batteries in their life time. Unless you are creating a trailer queen I would rather spend the money on good original parts even if they are more expensive to keep the important stuff looking right!

 

[Geo Hahn]

NAPA, Walmart, AutoZone and probably most other chains have black-case batteries for $40-50. Frankly, that's close enough for me for "the look" of an original battery. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

These are Wal-Mart batteries:

Remove (and save) the original labels, faux-Lucas labels courtesy of Walgreens Photos (9.5 cents each), some 2-sided tape, 6 old battery caps off eBay (if they don't say MOPAR or Delco they'll be cheap) and walla! a reasonable facsimile of a period battery.

Sounds like you would enjoy keeping the car as original as possible. I am trying to do that with my '4 -- not always easy because it is also my daily driver. There is a growing appreciation for the 'survivor' cars though it seems to be moreso in Europe than in the US.

 

[TR_Jim]

I have to agree about the tires. I wanted originality too on my TR4A and spent over $500 for a set of original size, narrow whitewall bias ply tires. The car rode and handled like cr#p! Two years later I went with a slightly larger modern radial and couldn't believe the difference. Smooth ride and handled 100% better, and a third of the cost.

 

[TR6oldtimer]

It seems to me that you are really, really into collecting with the goal to keep the car as originally as possible. So if that is what makes you happy and enjoy the hobby, I see no problem with spending a grand here and there above what others would do. Heck I see people spend three times that to buy a plasma or LCD TV so they can watch football at home in HD.

As said in other posts, it is your car, do it your way and enjoy.

 

[eschneider]

Our cars are (at least) as much a medium of expression as they are transportation or investment.

If you're an "originality" kind of guy, express yo'self! $1000 is cheap for therapeutic value.

On the other hand, I once heard someone say that owning a spit fire was kind of like dating a stripper:

- they don't require much commitment
- they love being ridden hard
- and with a little TLC and caring, they're yours forever....

<grin> OK, maybe I'm a pig.

PS - the feaux lucas battery was SWEET....