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TR4/4A Introduction - New [to me] TR4A

Popeye

Obi Wan
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Hello all,

Just wanted to introduce myself: I'm in Charlotte, NC, and just bought a '67 TR4A (non-IRS). I was seriously thinking about Ben/Bajo's TR4A, but found this one closer to home.

The body is largely rust free, the only problem is the driver's side floor pan. The paint is original Triumph green. The body has a few dings presently filled with Bondo. It needs a new interior, dashboard and top.

My plan is preservation-focused -- and flexible basis the recommendations of experts here and on the TVR forum! I'll take the body off the frame, clean, rust-proof(POR-15, likely), and paint the frame. I'll fix the mechanical bits on the motor, maybe paint it(?). I'll fix the body, and again either paint it all or just paint the parts that need paint. Finally, a new interior.

Step one is to do as much research as possible and catalogue the car with a camera.

If any have suggestions on good texts, I am all ears.

Again, hello and thanks in advance for any and all advice!

Regards,
Mike aka Popeye
 
Welcome!

I'm pretty much in the same boat with my TR4A. I'm just about to start taking the body panels off.

Advice, hmmm... Buy several manuals and start hording catalogues from Moss, VB and others. You'll be surprised at how helpful it is to have several reference points since no one source does it all.
 
Hi Mike,
Gongrats on your purchase. A non-IRS TR4A is relatively rare and doesn't have the complexity and needs of the IRS model.
A couple of thoughts about the restoration. Do everything you can in an area which is exposed/disassembled as it's easier and less expensive/time consuming than having to go back into that area. If you have the body off or the engine out paint anything that is exposed; that would be the engine itself and the engine compartment (same color as the body and try for exterior quality, you'll appreciate it later). Resist the impulse to order all the parts you need till you work on that area (the guarantee might expire before you even install the part). Be patient. If you haven't already, join a local Triumph club which will be a great source for technical input, support and friendship.
Original TR4/4A/5/6 by Bill Piggott is great for visuals. I believe I saw an actual restoration book out there but the name escapes me. The parts are for the most part easily sourced from Moss Motors, The Roadster Factory, Victoria British and others.
TRs are great, I have a 4 and love it.
Good luck on your venture,
Bob
 
Hi Mike,

Happy Holidays and welcome!

You have already gotten a lot of good advice.

I'd like to also suggest a BMIHT certificate for your car (https://www.heritage.org.uk/archive/certificate/default.htm) With that you can confirm originality of some of the major items, build date, accessories, etc.

Research and document thoroughly before taking anything apart and starting any work. No doubt previous owners have done work or had work done on the car, so some things might have been changed or modified already. Be aware that there has some parts have been superceded and certain vendors might supply a later item that's not 100% "correct". As an example, the trim insert around the windshield seal on our cars was originally bright anodized aluminum. Most vendors supply chrome plastic replacements (that shrink over time).

As to texts, check out Roger Williams "How to Restore TR4 & 4A" for lots of detail and up-to-date, step-by-step info. Parts sources are given, but focus on the British vendors, not U.S. unfortunately. Not to worry, you'll get to know them all pretty quickly!

Bill Piggott's books are probably best regarding originality issues. He has two in print that cover your car. One is an overview of the entire TR line. The other is focused on the Micheloti-bodied cars (TR4/4A/5/250) and has more detail.

I also recommend a more general, non-marque-specific book entitled "How to Restore British Sports Cars", by Jay Lamm. It's a good overview of the entire restoration process and is very helpful.

I'd recommend you focus first on safety, then on mechanical issues. So, tires, brakes and steering are probably the first concerns. Next is frame, suspension and drive train. Finally, engine, carbs, gearbox, hoses, belts, etc.

Cosmetic issues might be delayed while the rest is sorted out. For example, exterior paint can be touched up and seat covers can cover ratty upholstery, for the time being.

The hole in the driver's side floor (which tells me the brake and/or clutch master cylinder leaked, probably during extended storage, so those systems need checking) can simply be patched until you want to tackle a proper repair.

Your car will have a hybrid frame that's basically a TR4A front half with a different rear section to accomodate the live axle. These frames can have issues at the center, the so-called "t-shirt" pressing the exhaust pipes pass through. Often this area rusts, cracks and weakens. The rear segments of the frame can rust from the inside out, usually progressing from the rear end forward. At the front, the angular braces from the shock towers to the main frame rails often rust near their base, because there was no drain hole drilled by the factory (it's easy enough to add one, especially if/when the engine is pulled).

The Michelotti body has some potential problem areas. If the floor is rusted through, also check the rockers, the a- and b-bost bases, and check closely behing the fenders (by removing them and/or looking from inside the trunk & engine compartment). The vent scuttle can rust from the inside out, if the drains were plugged. Those drains dump water behind the front fenders, which can lead to rust there, as well (many extend the drain tube out under the car, right through the rockers).

You might seriously consider getting a frame reinforcement kits from someone like Revington TR (www.revingtontr.com) or other vendor. This simplifies the process because all the needed items are included, not to mention some instructions! The kit is based upon Neil's experience in vintage rallying and his own factory-prepared TR4 Rally cars (he owns one or two of the originals). He has adapted kits for earlier and later cars.

As an example, one key area is the shimmable, lower/inner front suspension mounts, which are weak on all TR4A/250/5 and some TR6, really should get some reinforcement to be safe. The parts can be bought separately, or fabricted if you know what you are doing, or sub-kits are available for from several vendors. But it might be best gotten as a part of a whole-frame reinforcing kit from Revington. Roger Williams shows details in his book. Welding is necessary.

Yes, catalogs from various vendors are excellent sources of info. Victoria British and Moss supply the good ones here in the U.S. Moss' is also online at www.mossmotors.com

But, also get the reprint of the correct factory manual published by Bentley, and the factory TR4A Spare Parts Catalog. These can be pricey, but have tons of info. You'll need the spare parts catalog with the original parts numbers to order from some vendors (The Roadster Factory and others).

To save on these and all books, watch on eBay for used copies. Or better yet go to Amazon.com where prices are often lower, especially for used books.

If you will be doing a lot of major work during a fairly short period of time, you might consider signing up for The-Roadster-Factory's TRF Car Club and/or Moss' Rebuilders Program. These have an annual fee but entitle you to regular discounts for the year.

A digital camera is really helpful, as are other organizing tools such as baggies, markers, tags, etc. For a full, frame-off restoration, a three car garage would sure be nice, so long as you don't have any other cars parked in it! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/ooo.gif I've decided that the first step of my next restoration project will be several large, deep shelving units to store all the parts on! (Note: keep *everything* until the project is done, if for no other reason so that old, worn out parts can be carefully compared with new, to check for correctness.)

Do you have a local Triumph club? If so, they can be a good source of info and support!

Have fun! These cars are pretty simple and easy to work on.

/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
Hi again Popeye. Best of luck in your "solid axle" resto. I'm glad to hear everything is working in your favor, and I hope to see many more posts (hopefully all positive) about your progress.
lots of knowlage to be found here, and lots of goodwill twards everyone who has a question.
Welcome and enjoy
 
Welcome Mike, my car is an irs TR4a, from 1965, so pretty similar. I am about half way through a complete rebuild of what I thought was a pretty solid car (I had owned it 10 years) which I damaged in a front end accident.
I look forward to comparing notes as we both make progress!
Simon.
 
Just want to shout out a big "Thank You!!!!" to all of you for your welcomes and advice. (Alan, that means you! Putting forth such a wonderfully elaborate response to a new question is very giving - thank you!)

In case some disappear from cyber-space between now and then, happy new year!
 
Welcome from northern east coast. And happy new year too!
 
Popeye, I live in Charlotte too. I'm more of an MG guy though. There is an active Triumph club in the area, and I'd recommend you check in with them. There are several British car shows and other TR4 owners around here.
 
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