Insurance

[vagt6]

We've been over this topic many times because there are widespread misconceptions regarding insurance coverage for antique vehicles.

Foxtrapper, above, is essentialy right (as usual!). With a typical family auto policy, unless we purchase "agreed value" or a similar physical damage coverage our insurer will pay losses based upon <u>depreciated</u> value. Vehicles older than about 20 y.o. will get a maximum depreciation that, in most cases, is equal to a fraction of the car's current market value!

So, unless you choose to "self-insure" your antique car, please purchase agreed value or similar physical damage coverage on your LBC. Otherwise, you'll get <u>practically nothing </u>in case of a wreck/loss.

 

[TR3driver]

We've been over this topic many times because there are widespread misconceptions regarding insurance coverage for antique vehicles.

Indeed there are, and many of them are in this thread !

I've got a photostat of the cancelled check for the TR3A that was covered under my family car policy; which is for many times the original purchase price of the car (both new and when I bought it). Hardly a depreciated value. I also have the information on the comparable car sales that they averaged together to arrive at a value for my car.

That's not to say your insurance company won't try to cheat you ... they can do that with any kind of policy !

But if you think they are likely to try, perhaps you should look for a different company. And when you go to court to hold their toes to the fire, the actual value of the car (aka fair market value) is what you'll be arguing over.

 

[rooster]

I'd trade ya Julian,up here in B.C. I pay annually on the Triumph, 661.00 for basic coverage 58.00 for collision,56.00 for comprehensive and 188.00 for what they call Roadstar,which is like AAA in your parts.Total 902.00 The above prices are with a 43% safe drivers discount for 10 years accident free driving. ...
Almost takes the fun outta driving.Almost I say..

Hey Opa,

I used to live in Quebec and I only payed 175 bucks a year for my TR6 for 12 months (including collision and comprehensive) my main car in Que cost me about 600 a year. Over there they insure the driver and not the car. When I moved here to BC I almost /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/pukeface.gif when I saw the cost. To save some dough you can try and insure your LBC for 6 months of the year like I do. It saves me about 400 or 500 bucks over the cost of a full year that way.

Cheers

 

[vagt6]

We've been over this topic many times because there are widespread misconceptions regarding insurance coverage for antique vehicles.

Indeed there are, and many of them are in this thread !

I've got a photostat of the cancelled check for the TR3A that was covered under my family car policy; which is for many times the original purchase price of the car (both new and when I bought it). Hardly a depreciated value. I also have the information on the comparable car sales that they averaged together to arrive at a value for my car.

The proof lies in your policy language. Most family auto policies will pay only the "actual cash value or cost of repair, whichever is less". Actual cash value (ACV) means current retail value minus depreciation. Depreciation for antiques is huge (and, if the cost to repair exceeds the ACV of your vehicle, you will only be paid the ACV of the vehicle). This is the standard policy language (determined by law) in practically all U.S. states.

It's difficult to comment on individual experiences with antique vehicles such as yours, but it's a <u>fact</u> that unless you've purchased some form of agreed value coverage, or unless you're insured under a specialty policy such as Hagerty's, you may receive a depreciated settlement from your insurer.

Check your policy carefully, it's not hard to do. If you see the above phrase under your policy's "physical damage coverage" section and there's no endorsement that recinds this language, you may be in for a surprise if an insured loss occurs.

Buyer beware. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

Just sayin' . . . /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonono.gif

 

[Opa]

Rooster,that's normally what I do. I run ins. from May to end of Oct.That covers about all the shows in the pacific northwest and Triumphest which is usually in Oct.

You belong to any clubs around here? Fraser Valley British car is in your area. BCTR is out of Vancouver.

 

[foxtrapper]

I've got a photostat of the cancelled check for the TR3A...

Which is absolutely meaningless. What you paid for a car has no bearing on its actual worth.

 

[NutmegCT]

Rooster,that's normally what I do. I run ins. from May to end of Oct.That covers about all the shows in the pacific northwest and Triumphest which is usually in Oct.

hmmm - question for you: if your TR is damaged (fire, neighbor's kids, pesky critters) or stolen (then damaged) between November and April, what happens?

Thanks.
Tom

 

[rooster]

I used to be in the Fraser Valley club. Haven't been a member for about 5 years. I haven't really bothered to look into any of the other clubs.

Cheers

 

[Opa]

Tom: the off months i put storage ins. on it @35.00/mon. Gives me fire,theft and comprehensive to a vehicle value of 30,000.00.Home policies do not cover a vehicle with plates on it.

 

[TR3driver]

Actual cash value (ACV) means current retail value minus depreciation.

Nope. Actual cash value means exactly what it says, the current value in cash. In some cases (like cars less than 10 years old), it may be estimated by original retail value less some factor for depreciation.

 

[TR3driver]

Which is absolutely meaningless.

Sorry, typed it wrong. I mean I've still got a copy of the check that the insurance company gave me, when my car was wrecked.

And the fact it was many times what the car cost new (and what I paid for it) DOES indicate that it was not based on a "depreciation" table. At best it would have to be an "appreciation" table (but the fact they also gave me the comparable sales when I asked indicates to me that it didn't come from any 'table' at all).

Obviously, it all can vary from company to company or state to state; but I have proof that at least some "non-agreed-value" policies will pay a fair amount.

 

[swift6]

Could it also depend upon your states insurance laws? In Colorado, by law, you have to be made 'whole' again. That means if your car is 'totaled' then they they have to pay you fair market value for your vehicle so that you can replace it with one like it or repair it to the same level that it was pre-accident.

When my Bronco II was totaled out from under me, the only value the insurance company talked about with me was what vehicles like mine had recently sold for. Not a depreciated value, but actual cash value as determined by a fair market within a 100 mile range of my zip code.

When I was discussing this with my Insurance agent he indicated that ir didn't matter how old your car was. On a stated/agreed value policy they pay that regardless of market value.

 

[swift6]

Keep AAA for your modern cars, and Hagerty for the TR6. I think the AAA towing will cover your TR6 if you need them.

As my AAA towing coverage has been explained to me, and proven through use, the coverage follows the person not any particular car. Any of your cars, your friends cars, any car, as long as you are there with your card when the tow truck shows up. No questions unless they begin to feel that your abusing the coverage. Whenever I have mentioned that it was one of my Triumphs needing towed, they have automatically sent a flatbed. Which I have always appreciated.

MY AAA coverage costs me $72/year for 100 miles free towing (thats 100 miles per tow, not total mileage per year). Using it once can more than pay for itself.

 

[myspitfire]

My insurance carrier is Hagerty(has been for the last 8 years)I have a restored 1979/80 Spitfire 1500(Calif car)Every year i pay with a cashiers check this year $100.00 full agreed value coverage,Hagerty this year increased the agreed value to $8000.00,i didn't ask for an increased value,they said after i sent them a catalog of pic's,agreed to that value.,last year i dropped the better flat bedded coverage as i thought the cars is in storage over the winter & didn't need it.(Its $140.00 a year for 3 50mi flatbed tows)If you have a certfied antique car go with Hagerty,in the beginning all of my cars were covered under Allstate,at great expense,Now my classic is under separate rule.
It can get confusing.
Ken & WhiteLightning

 

[vagt6]

Actual cash value (ACV) means current retail value minus depreciation.

Nope. Actual cash value means exactly what it says, the current value in cash. In some cases (like cars less than 10 years old), it may be estimated by original retail value less some factor for depreciation.

My definition of ACV (e.g., current retail value minus depreciation) is straight from my GEICO auto insurance policy. It's also the definition that's in yours and everyone else's policy: go look in your policy under "physical damage", it's right there. ACV is a univeral insurance term that's been around for a long time.

Regardless, I think we're all in agreement that it's best to purchase "agreed amount" coverage for the specific amount of insurance required for your particular antique vehicle. This way, we pay for the exact amount of coverage we want, assuring that in case of a total loss it's the amount we'll receive from our insurer (minus the deductible, of course /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/cryin.gif).

We put so much into these cars, it's important to insure them properly. That way, no surprises! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif

 

[BryanC]

So, what is "current retail value?" That sounds like what the car would sell for if you sold it now. But that can't be. Consider buying a car new for $40,000. A few years pass and today its retail value is $20,000. So its current retail is $20,000. The depreciation was the difference between its original sales price and its current value or $20,000. So, current retail value minus depreciation is $20,000 - $20,000 = $0. So I get nothing for my five year old car that would sell for $20,000? I hope not. I guess there are a bunch of terms being used that don't have the meanings that I would expect.

Bryan

 

[TR3driver]

My definition of ACV (e.g., current retail value minus depreciation) is straight from my GEICO auto insurance policy.

I suggest you go back and read it again, then. Since you won't believe me, read this :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actual_cash_value

Note the phrase "replacement value" which means buying a new, equivalent car, not the current retail value of your car. And, FWIW, a lawyer friend of mine tells me that the courts have not always accepted the insurance company's definition of "ACV", unless it's specifically spelled out in the policy.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] It's also the definition that's in yours and everyone else's policy: go look in your policy under "physical damage", it's right there.[/QUOTE]Actually it's not. My policy covers the "agreed or appraised" value of the motor vehicle; to the maximum of the amount listed in the declarations. But then, I wouldn't buy insurance from Geico; that's a Mercury policy.

As my Pappy used to say, there's a certain price you have to pay for hay. Of course it's somewhat cheaper after it's been through the horse! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/grin.gif

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Regardless, I think we're all in agreement that it's best to purchase "agreed amount" coverage for the specific amount of insurance required for your particular antique vehicle.[/QUOTE]If your vehicle and planned usage qualifies for it, then I agree. But my usage (both actual and planned) matches neither the intent nor the letter of any "agreed value" policy that I've found. And if it did, I'm sure the policy would cost even more than what I pay for what I have; since I really do drive my Triumphs as often as I can. (The TR3A was wrecked on the way home from work. Traffic stopped, I stopped, the Toyota behind me didn't stop. 4-car chain collision.)

BTW, since we're on the topic and I've got a policy handy, the Stag cost me $201 (in 2006) for 6 months of full coverage (to a $6000 stated value). Deductible is only $250 (but for some reason they paid me the full amount on the TR3A).
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]We put so much into these cars, it's important to insure them properly. That way, no surprises! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/driving.gif [/QUOTE]/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif

 

[TR3driver]

Where in the world did you find your definition "current value in cash". /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif LOL!!!!

How about a dictionary of legal terms ?
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Actual+cash+value
"The fair or reasonable cash price for which a property could be sold in the market in the ordinary course of business, and not at forced sale."

 

[Trevor Triumph]

I undersatnd Hagerty covers the car on club events. As I understand it, I can drive the car to work and then attend a club event in the evening. My wife and I, along with other Brit car owners have done several overnight events, some are two two four day drives and never given a thought to motel parking lots. A few times ther has been an extra motel security person on duty. There is a mileage limit, I think- about 2500 miles. Our policy also allows some pleasure driving, after all, that's why we have the cars. Fortunately we have never had a claim, but friends have and there has never been a hassle.

 

[vagt6]

Where in the world did you find your definition "current value in cash". /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/confused.gif LOL!!!!

How about a dictionary of legal terms ?
https://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Actual+cash+value
"The fair or reasonable cash price for which a property could be sold in the market in the ordinary course of business, and not at forced sale."

Thanks for all the references, TR3driver. However, since we're discussing insurance coverage here, I refer specifically to insurance policy language, not Wikipedia, which has no bearing on anyones insurance policy coverage.

The language that exists in your policy determines coverage: that's the only definition that that matters if you have a loss. By law, we accept the language and definitions contained in our policy when we purchase the policy.

If your policy's "physical damage" section contains the standard insurance definition of ACV, that's what you'll get. And in insurance lingo across the planet, ACV means <u>current market value MINUS depreciation</u>.

The standard family auto policy is <u>not</u> designed to provide adequate coverage for antique vehicles, period. Speciality coverage such as "agreed value", agreed amount or a commercial auto policy must be purchased to adequately insure speciality/antique vehicles.

I'm in the insurance/risk management biz, BTW (29 years), and I've seen what happens to folks who fail to purchase proper coverage. It ain't pretty sometimes.

Enough on this subject for me. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif

Thanks for all the input, folks! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/thumbsup.gif