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TR2/3/3A Ignition Timing?

karls59tr

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Is there a way to set the ignition timing if the hub and pulley have been assembled wrong and the TDC hole is in the wrong place?
 

bobhustead

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In all cases, the hole is just the starting point and you finish by ear. "Degreeing" is a waste of time. Take the valve cover off and turn the engine by hand and watch for the #1 intake valve to open and close. You are now at the bottom (beginning) of the compression stroke (about 90 degrees btdc). Turn the engine a bit at a time until you can contact the piston top with a screwdriver or other probe. Turn until you feel the piston go over the top, then turn back up to the highest point. There will usually be noticeable ease of turning the crank(slack action) right at the top because the pistons are not really moving up and down (two are tdc and two bdc) and thus offer no resistance to the crank turning. Turn the distributor until the points just open (use the test light method to precisely gauge this). Tighten the dist clamp down a little. Crank it up and then set the timing by ear. It will take less time to do than it did to explain.
Bob

)
 

James A Martin

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My pulley was off a bolt hole (60 deg), and ran fine, although sluggish, until I changed the points and tried to set the timing by the manual. I had no idea it was off till I had the head removed and could see the piston in #1 was at TDC. and the 'hole' position on the pulley was obviously wrong. Till then the reason I couldn't get it to run was a great mystery.... & By the time I got a look inside the engine I had decided to do the valves, guides, timing chain and gears, pistons and liners main and connecting rod bearings. oil pump and ARP studs, and many other things that are now in envelops and boxes awaiting the return of my block and head from the machine shop.
Had I known about the timing errors I was making were due to the pulley misplacement I would have probably been able to get the thing to run and tried to make the season with my worn engine. I may enjoy the rest of this summer more after this latest and longest turn down Triumph World Dr.
The new Timing gears I have have no mark like the old ones that were worn somewhat so I have a timing wheel and a dial indicator to be sure I get them in the right holes.
I found it interesting that the bolt holes on the cam gear are approx. 92deg as opposed to 90deg. and which set of 2 holes you use to affix the gear to the shaft allows you to set the gear at 1/4 tooth difference using the holes 90deg from each other or you can turn the gear completely around and get 1/2 tooth difference or rotate another 90 deg, and get 3/4 tooth difference. one of these settings is correct to place the top of the lobe of the camshaft in time with the crankshaft..
Just pulling out the gears from the box and assembling all your parts after the crank and camshaft have been removed gives you a 1 in 4 chance of getting it right... Too expensive and time consuming to get in a big rush just now...
 

bobhustead

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There is a non-material error in my post. At the beginning of the compression stroke, the crank is about 180 btdc, not 90. It doesn't matter to the operation I described.

Bob
 

CJD

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Wow, Jim. That's the biggest project creep I have ever heard of! And I think you also found the reason the car seemed so lethargic. It will be night and day now that you are getting a new motor tuned properly.

A note on the odd bolt spacing for the cam sprocket...if you advance a cam in relation to the crankshaft, you shift the torque to the low rpm range. If you retard the cam, it moves the torque band higher, at the loss of low end torque. I think you must have a cam sprocket that is made to set the cam advanced or retarded in 1/4 link increments. It's a tuning aid. I'd recommend setting it at 0 degrees to 1/4 link advanced. The reason to possibly choose advanced is to allow for chain stretch, and that low end torque always makes a street car feel peppier.
 
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James A Martin

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John,
Excellent advice. The low end torque is desireable...power comming out of a corner on these winding roads here in Arkansas was my original goal... My point of reference as to the performance was my 1st TR3B in '70, so the recent experiance was clouded to say the least. I had some moments thinking maybe the TR wasn't as much fun as i remembered. I was actually glad to find the worn pistons and valves, etc.
 

LarryK

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Is pulling on backwards?
 

James A Martin

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John,
It will be interesting to find the change 1/4 tooth advance for the cam will make. I may just start there...After the engine is back in the car it is quite a project to get down to where the gear can be changed to compare. I'm getting itchy to get the car back on the ground and outof the shop...
Jim
 

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James A Martin

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John,
The "biggest project creep" Hummm...
This car was 'stored' for 40-45 years.
My first test drive after getting the B in my makeshift shop was one way... the fuel system was leaking at every rubber and cork part to the point of calling AAA.
Replaced all rubber and cork, pump, flushed the tank, rebuilt SUs, and most fuel lines.
Next came the second one way trip, the return spring on the clutch slave broke...AAA again.
New master and slave cylinders and most of the lines. Clutch , throw out bearing and pressure plate, and changed the brake master while I was there. I replaced rear brake slaves and most hard lines and flex lines on the front and rear, & new shoes on the rear...
Then I got frendly with the stearing...Replaced the Balljoints and Tie rod ends, and found a stearing box that doesn't leak, and descovered the charm of the 'Traficator' chaseing the turn signals...
Thats where I decided to replace the points and condenser starting the current engine rebuild...
I'm getting used to creeping through component driven projects.
At the end of each, another pops up. I'm hoping the latest will get me on the road for a round trip drive and for a fairly uneventful season...
Jim
 

CJD

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Add a paint job and you'll have a new car! A friend and I bought 1960's Vettes at the same time. My Mother died, so I restored mine immediately to keep my mind occupied, and my friend just drove his. 5 years later I had driven my Vette from Seattle to Maine, Florida to Tajuana. In that time my friend only put 2k miles on his because it broke down every time he took it out of the house.

Sometimes it's best to do all the work up front...so you can enjoy the car later without worrying!
 
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