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I think I wiped out my GP2 cam........

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If I remember right you don't drink anymore so sounds like time for an Arnold Palmer put your feet up and think about the next car.
You know it wasn't that long ago you were talking about selling it.

<span style='font-size: 26pt'><span style='font-family: Comic Sans MS'>TOO LATE</span></span>
 
Bill,

If I had a new GP-2 cam in my hands, it would be on a UPS truck to you tomorrow. That's one of the reasons that I wasn't rushing the machine shop with my work. I knew from being at TRF and talking to Rich, that they were out.

And I don't want to make you sadder, but I've taken too many engines apart that lost a cam lobe. That material is somewhere in the engine and that would most likely be in the oil galleys and to a large degree, the oil filter.

BUT, not a large enough degree to risk wiping out a crankshaft.

I don't like saying it, but my vote is for a complete tear down. I fear that if you don't do it now, the cost will be much higher later.
 
DrEntropy said:
The oil likely went to 50W as temp increased so cushioned the "shock" a bit to make the noise less evident.
Click to expand...

I don't think I follow that. Oil viscosity goes down as the temperature increases - even on multi-viscosity grades. 20W50 will drop in viscosity as temp. goes up. It just doesn't drop as much as a straight 20W. I don't understand how lower oil viscosity makes the noise go away.


Bryan
 
You know what, there, Bill, get a cam and try the
magnet thing. I mean, you gotta go with your comfort
level, right? It's cool. Hey, if it doesn't work,
what's the worst? You gotta rebuild her?

So you spend a little extra time fiddling trying to
make it work. It would sure be nice to idenify the
location of the noise; i.e., a specific cylinder/piston.
If it's just one cylinder issue, you can do less than
total machining everthing if you find the cam/magnet
doesn't quiet her proper.
 
I'm not sure I agree that the lobe material will be in the oil galleries; it's going to end up in the oil sump and I would have thought the filter would catch all of it since those things are designed to catch micron sizes aren't they?
I would tear apart the oil pump and pay attention to the oil passage from pump to filter though.
I would go for schlepping? in a new cam and new lifters with the magnet trick and gobs of that special break in grease.
But I'm still worried about what that noise you reported was; did it have a failing cam kind of sound (whatever that's like) to it?
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif along with that I would pull a main bearing and rod cap and chech them out.I'd pull the back one and check thrust washers at the same time,the pans off now anyway.
 
Have you done a search for Engel cams in the bay area. Years ago I phoned the gent who makes Triumph cams. He was very knowledgeable, and willing to spend time exchanging his information for my questions. Might be able to clue you in.
 
BryanC said:
DrEntropy said:
The oil likely went to 50W as temp increased so cushioned the "shock" a bit to make the noise less evident.
Click to expand...

I don't think I follow that. Oil viscosity goes down as the temperature increases - even on multi-viscosity grades. 20W50 will drop in viscosity as temp. goes up. It just doesn't drop as much as a straight 20W. I don't understand how lower oil viscosity makes the noise go away.


Bryan
Click to expand...

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_oil

Specifically:

To bring the difference in viscosities closer together, special polymer additives called viscosity index improvers, or VIs are added to the oil. These additives make the oil a multi-grade motor oil. The idea is to cause the multi-grade oil to have the viscosity of the base number when cold and the viscosity of second number when hot. This enables one type of oil to be generally used all year, and when multi-grades were initially developed, they were frequently described as all-season oil.
 
Hey Doc
Actually Brian is quite right.

A 20w50 oil would have a viscosity of ~60cSt at 40°C (modern test are at much lower temperatures) which is the "cold" or Winter viscosity. At 100°C. The viscosity is closer to 18cSt, a significant reduction in viscosity the viscosity of this oil at low temperature.
A straight weight 50 oil would have had a viscosity of nearly 250cSt at low temperature.

Basically the first # is the viscosity equivalent of a straight viscosity oil at a low temperature and the second # is the equivalent of a straight viscosity oil at 100C. however, and somewhat confusing, despite lower <u>viscosity index</u> at low temperature, the <u>viscosity</u> at the low temp will almost always be HIGHER than the viscosity at the High index temp.

for a conversion chart:
https://www.bobistheoilguy.com/visc.html
 
My comment was about the index. I get the 'thinner at temp' thingie.

Good link, too.
 
OK, I am gonna jerk the head and send it to a good machine shop up the road (highly recommended by a local mechanic) and have them reset the valves and generally give the thing a good going over.

Question, and I should know this, what is the best way to unbolt the head? Should it be done in torqued sequencing, a little at a time in reverse order of installation? And, any problems reusing the head studs and nuts (ARP). Of course I will use a new gasket. (TRF now has sourced their head gaskets from a different manufacturer, no good info on them. Anyone know of the best quality head gasket or does it matter?)

The cam should be in in about 2 weeks.
 
I remove the head as you described, in reverse order a little at a time. I would also not have a problem reusing the studs and nuts given the are near new.

Have fun...
 
I like Fel-Pro.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]TRF now has sourced their head gaskets from a different manufacturer, no good info on them. [/QUOTE]

Bill,

Talk to Daveand tell him that you want Payen gaskets. They have them and they use them on their rebuilds as well. See picture of engine leaving their shop two weeks ago today.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] what is the best way to unbolt the head? Should it be done in torqued sequencing, a little at a time in reverse order of installation?[/QUOTE]

Yes!

I would reverse the torque sequence incrementally to remove the head properly.
 
I called TRF last week about buying gasket sets and other parts for my Spitfire engine project. I specifically told the guy I was talking to (not Dave, but don't recall who) I wanted Payen gaskets. He checked and said the gaskets were made by somebody other that Payen. I think he said Affinia (same people that now own Wix filters). I think this person was new and not too familiar with car parts, because he had no clue what ARP bolts were. I still haven't ordered the gaskets, but may give them another try. BPNW and TSI both have the Payen gaskets.
 
I recently changed out my head gasket due to an oil leak on the drivers side towards the back. I used the TRF gasket (can't remember the brand). It has some sort of powder residue on it. I did call TRF to ask about gasket sealant. They recommended the copper sealer which I did use. At that time they told me they didn't carry Payen, and the gasket I received is the one they use on their rebuilds.
The new gasket leaks worse than the original. I may have overtorqued the studs. I was using ARP lubricant, but torqued to about 75 as in the manual. After seeing recent threads about torquing heads, I think that may have been too much with that lubricant. The head appears flat with a straight edge. I really didn't want to have any major head work done right now to have that verified. I have now ordered and received the Payen set from BPN. I have also ordered ARP studs from Summitt. They should be here next week. So, hopefully I'll have better results with the Payen gasket. I'm considering using a different sealer (permatex) along the drivers side edge. Any thoughts on that? Once was enough. Twice is too much. I don't want to have to change the head gasket again for a long time.
 
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