TR2/3/3A How to verify TR3 engine numbers

[doc50]

I just ordered the British Heritage Certificate and in doing so, became curious as to if I have the original engine # (or even original body # for that matter).
I don't see a website for engine, body or chassis numbers for TR3. (though Spitfires seem to have one).
Any ideas out here?
Thanks.

Thom
1959 TR3
#TS 34909L(O)

 

[charleyf]

Thom,
The BH certificate will tell you the original engine number. Which will likely be within a few hundred of your commission number.
Charley

 

[Geo Hahn]

...will likely be within a few hundred of your commission number.

Specifically, a few hundred higher than the commission number due to engines sold outright for other uses (e.g. Morgans).

This listing from the (now possibly defunct) TR Registry shows and engine number for a commission number near yours - will give some idea of the 'spread':

https://trregistry.com/start/TR3/reports/indivdata.php?vin=TS35388L

 

[doc50]

Thanks Jedi and Yoda.
Do you know if there is a way to ID these engines (date of mfg or original installation)?
Thom

 

[charleyf]

[QUOTE. Do you know if there is a way to ID these engines (date of mfg or original installation)?
Thom[/QUOTE]
Thom,
There is no specific data that I have heard of regarding engine manufacture dates. Again the BH certificate
will give you the date for the build and shipping of your car. That is about it for dates.
Charley

 

[doc50]

Got it, thanks.

 

[CJD]

There is a date cast into the right side of the block. For example, the block I pulled yesterday had "D96" on the casting pad. I would assume this to be a cast date of April 1956. The Head also has a casting date, and the generator and starter have stamped build dates.

When you get your certificate, compare these dates with the certificate date...It'll tell you what parts could/could not be original.

Edit...even the original shocks have stamped dates on them.

 

[doc50]

Thanks, John. I'll look to the numbers I can find.
Where is Southlake?

 

[CJD]

Southlake is right by the DFW airport, a little on the Ft Worth side. Today it is very built up, but this area was the center of Bonnie and Clyde's range at one time. There's no way they could hide out here today! The gentleman who sold me the TR3 went to school with Clyde Barrow.

 

[doc50]

Cool factoid about the prior owner, John.
The casting number on the right lower side of my engine says H271, which by your calcs, would be August of......?
I'm drawing a blank on '271', unless it stands for the 271st day of the year (which would be September 28th anyway).
Also, there is a series of (also cast) numbers next to the H271 that reads: 301435. Any ideas on those?
Thom

 

[CJD]

I am still not completely confident with British castings. Possibly August 27th, 1961? If that was it, It would make it a replacement motor from a TR4.

Is somebody out there more up on casting dates?

 

[charleyf]

When you say "motor" the block itself has the engine number on the drivers side. So I am guessing that you are referring to components that go onto that basic block. If it was a TR4 block it would have a CTXXXXXXE number on it. A TR3 block would have a TSXXXXXXE and a TR3B block would have either a TSFXXXE or TCFXXXXE. Then the TR4 head does have some numbers ( like 510084 ) on the front passenger side of the top of the head. The TR3 head does NOT have any numbers in that location. The intake manifold has part numbers that are on the underside. These are part numbers that are particular to certain years of cars. It is not uncommon for people to interchange some of these components on cars. Sometimes for performance and I suspect more often just because they needed a replacement and that was handy. The history of the car ( which most of us do not know) would tell us a lot about the components on the car.
I have a TR4 that I understand was raced in the California bay area at one time. It has a early TR4 engine ( from the small numbers on the engine block) it is a mid production car with a "early" short bubble hood. And when I restored it I found fenders from a variety of paint colors ( the original car color was white)while sanding them down to original metal. Plus I also found a few frame cracks that indicated to me that it was run hard in the past. Oh yes, two more things it had HS6 SU carbs from a Volvo instead of the H6 SU carbs that came on these cars and it had an early TR3 distributor.

So sometimes it is the absence of the numbers that can tell us what cars it came from and sometimes it is the numbers themselves that tell us.
Charley

 

[CJD]

So Thom, is it a "TS" or a "CT" number stamped on the block? If it's CT then it's a replacement block....otherwise we need someone to chime in about British methodology for casting numbers

 

[Don Elliott]

The number 301435 most probably is the casting number. That would be the number of the part (the cast block - before any machining) and is probably also the number that was showing ion the blue-print to manufacture the casting.

 

[doc50]

OK, that solves it. The stamped number is CT 1530E....which obviously means a TR4 replacement.
WHEW! Glad i wasn't going for a numbers matching SHOW CAR!

Thanks, folks.

Thom
1959 TR3
TS34909L(O)

 

[CJD]

Well, sorry it wasn't better news. If you're interested, I can re-check the casting date of the block I pulled last week. Free if you can pick it up...

 

[charleyf]

OK, that solves it. The stamped number is CT 1530E....which obviously means a TR4 replacement.
WHEW! Glad i wasn't going for a numbers matching SHOW CAR!

Thanks, folks.

Thom
1959 TR3
TS34909L(O)

Thom,
you would have to be in very sophisticated car show for them to be looking at the engine number. Now maybe a future buyer might be looking there. That TR4 I previously described was chosen People's Choice at Triumpest one year.
Charley

 

[doc50]

John, Charley, Don, et al, thanx.
I'm fine with the knowledge that my motor is a replacement, as the blocks are actually ALL the same.
I love this (my 5th) old girl and she has never let me down (...yet).

Wishing the same for y'alls!

Thom
1959 TR3
TS #34909L(O)

 

[Martin Longmore]

I am still not completely confident with British castings. Possibly August 27th, 1961? If that was it, It would make it a replacement motor from a TR4.

Is somebody out there more up on casting dates?

My TR4a 1967 was originally a CT engine no. I rebuilt a TR3 engine TS engine no. and put that in the car. Very little difference between the two engine blocks. The TS blocks have no camshaft bearings and the engine breather was discontinued in favour of a EGR valve, 'engine gas recirculation' valve. The CT engine blocks all had replaceable camshaft bearings. The reason I swapped the blocks was that I needed the car for work and needed to be able to change engines over the weekend. I worked for Triumph so obtaining all new parts for the engine was not a problem.

 

[CJD]

I had an all matching 1966 Corvette that I restored. I screwed up the valve to piston clearance and cracked the block. I wanted the car as a daily driver, but that incident taught me that a matching number car is not worth the risk of loosing the value if something were to happen to the original parts...on a Vette that can double the value. SO, I removed the entire drive line and instrument panel...and pickled them. I then built all those components back from non-matching parts. I never had to worry about damaging the valuable parts again!

Triumphs are not nearly as sensitive in value...but the principal still applies. If you want a daily driver, a non-matching car makes more sense.