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martx-5
Yoda
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NutmegCT said:
That would be too easy, and we wouldn't be able to have a two page saga over this issue!
BTW Dale, no matter how well you mark the distributor before you take it out, you will still have to re-time the ignition after you get the dizzy back in. Oh, it will be close enough to start and run, but you will still have to get a light on there and make final adjustments. You will not have to pull any valve covers and mess with valve adjustments. That has nothing to do with what you are doing now.
OP
RonMacPherson
Guest
Guest
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Dale, I am going to try to explain my recommendation for reference for distributor removal, before Randall decides to blow my suggestion out of the water again. He seems to enjoy attacking my credibility.
I suggested distributor reference removal siting in two locations, one the distributor cap to rotor location. That way you would know where the rotor should be pointing when it goes back in. Two the dampener. Even if you do not have individual timing marks you should be able to MAKE some kind of id reference mark on the damper(probably the long slot, or the short slot).
I eschew just making marks on the distributor body (scribe mark to where the rotor is pointing) as you may not get that body back from Jeff, or the mark may be erased by the work, if needed, he performs.
Also it is often difficult to make an id mark on the block, or some other item to correlate with the mark on the distributor. You are dealing with three dimensions here. So just a couple of good photos with your camera, which you are adept at would give you reference data to refer to when you go to reinstall it. Even if the crank gets turned you will be able to put the distributor in and turn the engine to the reference when you removed it. If the rotor winds up 180 off, then you know you need to turn the crank over one more time...
Simple, yet perhaps I needed to get further in to my explanation to make the removal foolproof.
I suggested distributor reference removal siting in two locations, one the distributor cap to rotor location. That way you would know where the rotor should be pointing when it goes back in. Two the dampener. Even if you do not have individual timing marks you should be able to MAKE some kind of id reference mark on the damper(probably the long slot, or the short slot).
I eschew just making marks on the distributor body (scribe mark to where the rotor is pointing) as you may not get that body back from Jeff, or the mark may be erased by the work, if needed, he performs.
Also it is often difficult to make an id mark on the block, or some other item to correlate with the mark on the distributor. You are dealing with three dimensions here. So just a couple of good photos with your camera, which you are adept at would give you reference data to refer to when you go to reinstall it. Even if the crank gets turned you will be able to put the distributor in and turn the engine to the reference when you removed it. If the rotor winds up 180 off, then you know you need to turn the crank over one more time...
Simple, yet perhaps I needed to get further in to my explanation to make the removal foolproof.
martx-5
Yoda
Offline
DrEntropy said:That left hand is a quick study, Art!
Yeah, it is amazing how quickly the body adapts! Besides, it drives me crazy that so much of the younger generation has eschewed capitalization, punctuation and good grammer. I try to make my posts as easy to read as possible and adding these elements goes a long way in doing that. At this point, I'm also able to use one or two fingers from my right hand, so the typing goes quicker. Glad you noticed!
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Hard not to, knowin' you got a wing in a sling!
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Besides, it drives me crazy that so much of the younger generation has eschewed capitalization, punctuation and good grammer. [/QUOTE]
Bah! It ain't 'xclusive to THEM. I'm a perfect example!!!
Old, cantankerous an' grammatically challenged. :smirk:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Besides, it drives me crazy that so much of the younger generation has eschewed capitalization, punctuation and good grammer. [/QUOTE]
Bah! It ain't 'xclusive to THEM. I'm a perfect example!!!
Old, cantankerous an' grammatically challenged. :smirk:
martx-5
Yoda
Offline
NutmegCT said:But at least they can spell "grammar"
<ducks and runs>
<span style="font-weight: bold">Touche!!</span> Did I spell that right! :laugh: One can never tell when the words come from the French.
And Doc, don't change a thing, I enjoy reading your humorous and sometimes twisted posts. It's who you are.
M_Pied_Lourd
Darth Vader
Offline
I am almost afraid to jump in here.....
But I will share my experiences having had a TR6 with the distributor set 180 out.
Although, as you have said correctly, you can get the car to fire and run fine knowing this, it can create two problems that I am aware of.
1. If you have a set of custom wires (TRF Green Ones for Example)they will not fit very well with this issue.
2. If you a running with the stock mechanical fuel pump, there are some issues with the tach cable routing as it want to lay over the top of the domed lid of the fuel pump. I don't think this positioning will help with either the acurracy of the tach or the longevity of the cable.
I did end up lifting the drive dog up and out of the block and rotated it to the correct position.
Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd
But I will share my experiences having had a TR6 with the distributor set 180 out.
Although, as you have said correctly, you can get the car to fire and run fine knowing this, it can create two problems that I am aware of.
1. If you have a set of custom wires (TRF Green Ones for Example)they will not fit very well with this issue.
2. If you a running with the stock mechanical fuel pump, there are some issues with the tach cable routing as it want to lay over the top of the domed lid of the fuel pump. I don't think this positioning will help with either the acurracy of the tach or the longevity of the cable.
I did end up lifting the drive dog up and out of the block and rotated it to the correct position.
Cheers,
M. Pied Lourd
swift6
Yoda
Offline
To clear up a few points...
Dale, feel free to correct what I might have wrong here...
Dale's distributor is not going for a rebuild, its going for a check up. Jeff rebuilt it already, something like 2500 miles ago at most. Jeff is making sure something didn't fail on his previous rebuild because of the extent of problems Dale seems to be having. If it does get rebuilt again, it may need to be re-timed.
For reference, when I had Jeff rebuild my distributor, I did exactly what Randall, DOC and myself have suggested. Not only did it fire up instantly, timing was still where it was when I took the distributor out of the engine. Maybe I was lucky.
Doc, I know you covered it as well but sometimes less is more. By the time I first read this thread it was already four pages deep and I didn't feel like crediting everybody that was trying to keep it simple.
I'll go back to my cave now, feeling grumpy and tired, darned cold & flu season. :frown:
Dale, feel free to correct what I might have wrong here...
Dale's distributor is not going for a rebuild, its going for a check up. Jeff rebuilt it already, something like 2500 miles ago at most. Jeff is making sure something didn't fail on his previous rebuild because of the extent of problems Dale seems to be having. If it does get rebuilt again, it may need to be re-timed.
For reference, when I had Jeff rebuild my distributor, I did exactly what Randall, DOC and myself have suggested. Not only did it fire up instantly, timing was still where it was when I took the distributor out of the engine. Maybe I was lucky.
Doc, I know you covered it as well but sometimes less is more. By the time I first read this thread it was already four pages deep and I didn't feel like crediting everybody that was trying to keep it simple.
I'll go back to my cave now, feeling grumpy and tired, darned cold & flu season. :frown:
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
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It could be worse ...swift6 said:
https://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5ifTg_yfYpAykFLdY6fVBnb3NeMZAD95J19DO2
emmett1010
Jedi Hopeful
Offline
when I built my tr3 engine, I put the dog in correctly and was surprised when it failed to start.
I soon discovered that the dpo had put the wrong cap on the car, and the plug wires cameout facing toward the front instead of the side.
I rummaged around in the part boxes and found the correct cap. After installing the wires correctly in the old cap, the car still would't start.
After removing the cap, I realized that the metal electrode on the rotor had been knocked off. It was the wrong rotor for the correct cap. Found the correct fitting rotor and I've had no other problems.
I fully agree with whoever said to measure the cap and rotor, and make sure they fit together correctly.
Change the dog, so that your oriented correctly like everyone else. No big deal!
Emmett
I soon discovered that the dpo had put the wrong cap on the car, and the plug wires cameout facing toward the front instead of the side.
I rummaged around in the part boxes and found the correct cap. After installing the wires correctly in the old cap, the car still would't start.
After removing the cap, I realized that the metal electrode on the rotor had been knocked off. It was the wrong rotor for the correct cap. Found the correct fitting rotor and I've had no other problems.
I fully agree with whoever said to measure the cap and rotor, and make sure they fit together correctly.
Change the dog, so that your oriented correctly like everyone else. No big deal!
Emmett
TR3driver
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
You did a lot better than me, then. My first TR3A had basically been driven until it wouldn't run any more, then abandoned. (I bought it through the DPO's sister, then never did get legal papers on it, but that's a different story.) One of the first things I did to try to get it running was to drop the cap & wires from Dad's TR3A onto it. Fought with it for days, standing in the snow and freezing various pieces of anatomy. It would snort and sneeze and act like it wanted to run; just never could quite put two cylinder firings together in the right order.emmett1010 said:
Finally gave up working out in the country and towed it on a rope to a friend's house, where we could at least go inside occasionally and get warm (plus have shore power for charging batteries, etc.) Bout froze a different portion of my anatomy, steering that car with cold air blowing up my pants leg through the holes in the floor.
Finally, it dawned on me to check the caps ... sure enough, Dad's engine was put together 180 degrees out. No one had ever noticed, and AFAIK it's still that way over 30 years later. I put the scummy original cap & wires back on my car, and it fired right up.
Silverghost
Yoda
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My oops on the points open vs closed. I'll crawl back under my rock now! LOL
OP
Tinster
Guest
Guest
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Tinster said:
[color:#660000]The dizzy should be on a plane to Jeff tonight
for a look/see....... NOT a rebuild.
Yes, I had to make custom plug wires to reach No.1 plug.
Yes, I know I'll have reset the timing.
But I won't have to mess with the horror of static timing and
adjusting the valves from scratch again.
I'm pretty confident I made enough marks and took photos and have the No.1
piston tdc, that I'll be able to get the car running once Jeff checks it out.
The car seems to run just fine 180* out.
There are NO Triumph mechanics here on the island to tear into the
engine to reverse the dog. Even if there were, at this time,
I cannot afford the cost $$$ to tear my engine down to reverse the dog.
I thank everyone for their kind help and input.
Here's what I sent to Jeff this afternoon.
dale
</span>
