How much force necessary to mate engine/trans?

[tdskip]

Did a quick fit on the TR4a to new OD and it took more force than I remembered to get them mated, although when Rich helped me with the TR6 OD gearbox it took a fair amount of force before I slotted home (thanks Rich!)

 

[bnw]

Nope. You're not lined up. Do you have a dummy pilot shaft? If not, either get one or make one out of a broom handle. It takes a lot of wiggling and playing with a floor jack but if you're lined up, it will slip right in.

 

[tdskip]

Spines on a non-OD and A-type OD are the same, right?

 

[TR4nut]

Timely question Tom-

I just did that this weekend! If you aren't exactly lined up with the clutch disk it can take some force, if not be impossible. I was having trouble when I used one of those plastic tools to get the clutch plate aligned. Couldn't get the gearbox to slide home - then I remembered I had a spare input shaft so tried that instead and still no go even though the clutch tool said yes. Used the spare input shaft instead for alignment, and with just a small amount of wiggling the gearbox slid right home. It helps to have the gearbox in gear, then move the output shaft to line up the splines.


edit: yes the splines are the same.

 

[Geo Hahn]

X2 on using an extra input shaft & the in-gear wiggle.

At our weekly coffee someone brought an input shaft, one of those plastic tools and a dial caliper. Easy to see why the plastic tool gives mixed results (it's smaller).

And yes, I agree it should slip right in when it's right (a great feeling when you're wrassling an OD gearbox singlehandedly with the engine in the car).

 

[tdskip]

Thanks guys - will realign the clutch.

 

[poolboy]

If it's like the TR6, putting a jack near the rear of the engine with a couple of pumps helps line things up.

 

[TomMull]

I've found that there is lots of error room even with the spare input shaft, though it's a lot easier than with the plastic thingy. Though perfect alignment is the key, I find that turning the tailshaft (trans in high gear) sometimes helps to overcome slight misalignment. You can do the same with the engine too but turn it with a wrench and with the battery disconnected. Use only muscle force on the tranny (and a jack underneath) while doing this (no pry bars and certainly no bolts).
Tom

 

[tdskip]

Thanks guys - both engine and trans are out. In theory clutch should be aligned already so maybe I just got the angle on engine/trans wrong.

 

[DNK]

Tom, Bigger Hammer?

 

[bnw]

There is definitely a mental aspect to this as well. Back in 1970, while waiting for my wife to get out of the doctor's office, pregnant with our first, I decided to pull the gearbox cover to see why I had so much noise in the box. It was a TR4 box. With cover off, I started the car (1959 TR3) and the gear box lube instantly shot out everywhere. I grabbed a t-shirt from behind me in order to cover the opening and in less that 1/2 second, the shirt was gone, the motor quit, and the trans was toast. I had a local (Portland, OR.) Ford tech who really knew his Triumphs rebuild the box for me. I tried for 2 days to get the gearbox back in again but to no avail. Back to Ford tech who told me to whittle a wooden broom stick down to size and use that. Still no go. After 2 more days of trying, I decided to disassemble a non syncro spare I had to get the input shaft. Without changing anything after using the broom stick, the steel shaft slipped right in. In less than 5 minutes, I had the gearbox in and ready to bolt up. Thus the mental aspect. BTW, I still have that input shaft! Sorry for the long post.

 

[TR3driver]

Definitely takes some "fiddling", even if the clutch disc is perfectly aligned. Rotating the splines to line up is required.

And as others have mentioned, I found the plastic tool to be worse than useless. I can do a better job with my finger! A spare input shaft is better yet.

PS, even with a spare input shaft, you should wiggle it around and find the "center". If you let it just hang while you tighten the bolts, the disc will be off-center.

 

[Rhodyspit75]

After reading your first post it appears that were able to get the bellhousing against the block, but with more pressure then you expected. If that is the case you should be OK. If the disc is not aligned then you would not have been able to mate the two no matter how much pressure you applied.
If you have a spare input shaft I would realign it. If not when you put it back together and release the clutch the first time the disc will go right where it needs to be. If you haven't taken it apart yet push the throwout arm to release the pressure plate and the disc will align itself.
It helps to have the transmission in gear and have someone turn the output shaft while trying to get the splines aligned. I used a plastic guide and when I finally lined up the splines the transmission just about fell into place.

 

[Twosheds]

Years ago, trying to make a TRA National and running late, I was installing the gearbox in The Blue TR3 by myself and it wasn't cooperating. I decided to rotate the engine. For some reason, instead of using the starting handle, I pushed on the fanbelt with my thumb to tighten it whilst turning the fan. The fanbelt felt kinda crinkly.

Note to self, "Order a new fanbelt and install it before leaving". The fanbelt arrived, but I didn't install it; I threw it in the boot.

I got the gearbox in just in time to leave for Hershey TRA.

Of course, I changed fanbelts on the shoulder of US-15 on the way to TRA in Hershey!

 

[tdskip]

Thanks guys

 

[Marvin Gruber]

Only thing I can add to the post is eyeball the gap all the way around the trans lip to the engine backing plate and make sure the gap is the same. I do use a 3 inch long removable stud at the top of the engine to hang the trans on (two is better)to help slid it home

Marv

 

[CJD]

There is definitely a mental aspect to this as well. Back in 1970, while waiting for my wife to get out of the doctor's office, pregnant with our first, I decided to pull the gearbox cover to see why I had so much noise in the box. It was a TR4 box. With cover off, I started the car (1959 TR3) and the gear box lube instantly shot out everywhere. I grabbed a t-shirt from behind me in order to cover the opening and in less that 1/2 second, the shirt was gone, the motor quit, and the trans was toast.

Funny... Only because I've been there!