TR2/3/3A How do you know if it's a tr3 or tr3a

[TR3driver]

No, we're all just a tad obsessed!

Yes, we are!

 

[TR3driver]

In David Hodges' Essential Triumph TR, there is a photo of 5 TR3s that won "Coupes des Alpes" in the 1956 Alpine Rally, which was apparently a coupe-only event. It's unfortunately tough to see much in the photos, but I think the one on the end has front drums.

 

[CUPWALKER]

The TR3A I have the joy of restoring has outside locking door handles and a rather odd looking bracket for the sideskirts and also front disc brakes I was also told it was two cars made into one so your guess is as good as mine. I figure my grandfather took the best features from both cars and combined them to make this jewel I have in my possession. either way I'm sure I'll have many more "loaded" questions like these before my project is done. Thank all of you for your input.

 

[TR3driver]

The TR3A I have the joy of restoring has outside locking door handles and a rather odd looking bracket for the sideskirts and also front disc brakes

Which all sounds normal for your commission number (assuming by "sideskirts" you mean what most people call either sidescreens or side curtains). There is an equally odd fastener known as a Dzus button that holds the side curtains to those brackets. It in turn takes a special T-shaped square-tipped wrench that is also used for the hood "locks" and spare tire "locks", and possibly for the trunk latches (since it appears you have an earlier trunk lid).

 

[bmurphy7369]

As far as the year, it was almost surely titled (sale date/title date determined the model year back then) in 1959, which I beleive is also the highest production year for the TR3/3A run. I owned TS31104L and TS39910L until the mid-1990's and both were titled as 1959 models. Your car most likely did have at one time a handle on the boot lid (I can't imagine why it originally would not that is), so there should be a center striker remaining where it would latch, at the center portion on the car side, just look up under the trunk lip to see, though I remember it being visible from above, looking down with the lid raised, on mine. Your car should also have the Girling brakes (later supplier), rather than the earlier Lockheed brand. Just some trivia, the TR3 is considered to be the first mass-production car fitted with disc brakes (Lockheed being the first version fitted, 1955 and on?), that is if I remember my history correctly. I always thought that was a great piece of info to throw out when asked about the cars.
You should have the Dzus mounts, originally, and I believe the Tenex studs on the door as well, at least I know TS31104L did, can't remember if TS39910L had them or not.
The "59" on your VIN plate is odd, never seen that or have not heard of dealers adding the title year to the plate, but it had to have been added at some point for whatever reason, possibly the plate was replaced or the car was restored and the owner decided to have the year stamped in to the new plate? Interesting though.
The only other model/production difference I can think of that I didn't see mentioned is the shape of your door pockets and seat cover styles. If you check the Roadster Factory's catalogue, I think they show drawings of the 3(?) various styles, and give the VIN change point and this may well be the same as the changes to the side curtain styles, can't remember but it seems like they are close if not the same. Just remembered there are some lettering style differences that occurred at various points as well (ribbed TRIUMPH lettering) and changes in the logo color, yours I think should originally have been blue/white instead of black/crimson. Also, at some point the two rear center lights changed from red to white or to amber I think, corrections welcome here of course....
Enjoy, the TR3A is a great classic, and a really durable and capable car as well. Part of their charm is their simplicity.... almost every part is bolt-on and replacements are available, though prices have gone up steadily since I was buying those parts. Still a great restoration project and an enjoyable driver as well. The removable piston sleeves (originally bored to 1991cc) can be bored to 2137cc for a bit more pep, which is what Triumph later did for the TR4 engine. The TR's engine block I believe is said to be a modified version of a Massey tractor engine block, hence the durability.

 

[Andrew Mace]

Just some trivia, the TR3 is considered to be the first mass-production car fitted with disc brakes (Lockheed being the first version fitted, 1955 and on?), that is if I remember my history correctly.

Correct on the Triumph being more or less the first quantity, series-produced car with disc brakes (I believe Jensen may have had them earlier, not to mention a few Crosleys and Chrysler Imperials, but not in anywhere near the quantity of cars built). However, the disc brakes fitted to TR3s were always Girling. (Triumph had tested Girling, Lockheed and even Dunlop disc brakes on the Le Mans team cars in, I think, 1955.)

Also, at some point the two rear center lights changed from red to white or to amber I think, corrections welcome here of course....

Never white, to my knowledge. Whether the rear flasher lamp lenses were amber or red depended on the market for which the car was built, with typical "North American Dollar Area" (as my Lucas Master Catalogue describes it) specification being red rear flasher lenses.

 

[TR3driver]

and I believe the Tenex studs on the door as well,

I'll disagree, although perhaps only over terminology. 'Tenax' normally refers to the studs with the round ball on the end, and the fastener with fingers that grip the ball until the knob is lifted. A TR3A should have those only on the top edge of the windshield. All the other fastening points for convertible top and tonneau cover should use "Lift the Dot" fasteners, which are simpler (and much less expensive). LTD studs are more of a rounded cone shape, with only a rounded indentation for the fastener to grip.

You can see drawings of both types at
https://www.zeni.net/trf/miniTR2TR3/58.php
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]The only other model/production difference I can think of that I didn't see mentioned[/QUOTE]Oh there's lots of other things that changed over the years; including the shape of the doors, floors, seats, rear apron ... "Can't tell the players without a program". For that reason, it's always important when ordering parts to be sure they are applicable to your commission number. And then to be sure the mating components you already have are also appropriate to your commission number.

Even looking at other cars to see what is "correct" can be tricky ... I once saw a beautifully restored TR3A sitting in the Moss showroom with the wrong trunk lid (post-60K trunk and hood had raised platforms for the hinges; while the pre-60K versions did not).

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Also, at some point the two rear center lights changed from red to white or to amber I think, corrections welcome here of course.... [/QUOTE]I agree with Andy, original rear turn signals for "North American" cars would always have been red (which I believe was required by law at the time). Amber was used for other markets (but of course many TR3 owners including myself have chosen to fit amber to their cars). Clear lenses were used on the front, but again will interchange with the rear lenses (hopefully in conjunction with amber bulbs).

 

[vivdownunder]

Thanks Randall, looks like the Grand Touring TR3's were available in both drum and disc versions. By centre mounted spotlight, I meant the 5" Lucas Flamethrower on the hardtop. Perhaps this and the two 7" spots on the bracket between the front over-riders were owner fitted, along with the sump guard etc.

A genuine privateer's Liege-Rome-Liege rally car came here about 40 years ago, but it's a 3A, thus revealing nothing about the small mouth competition cars.

Regards,

Viv

 

[emmett1010]

Hello everyone;
I'm having trouble completing the rear part of my tr3, TS17221LO.
If I understand correctly my trunk lid should have latches on either side with the fig leaf covers, and a lock in the lower center of the lid. OK
The rear apron has the rear flashers mounted separatly, with the later styled License lamp assembly.
According to Moss, my car should have the combo, brake and license lamp assembly. This may be correct, because I have a large center hole in the rear apron behind this brake assembly, but the wire comes out of the bottom corner, and runs through a hole that looks to have been punched in, for the newer stlyle.
If this is incorrect, should I replace the part?
If I replace it with the combo brake and license plate lamp assembly, is the center brake light functional? ie three brake lights- My new screw connector wiring harness doesn't run a brake wire to the center--
How important is all this--will I be penalized for incorrect fittings- Am I getting anal over this--yes--
If you're not nuts already, just try to restore a basket case LBC
Emmett

 

[TR3driver]

The rear apron has the rear flashers mounted separatly, with the later styled License lamp assembly.
According to Moss, my car should have the combo, brake and license lamp assembly.

It's my belief that Moss is mistaken. The factory documentation is somewhat unclear on the point, but I believe US-spec TR3s started getting the inboard turn signals earlier than the rest of the world did, at about TS15601 instead of the TS18913 that Moss gives. The TRA judging standards also give the earlier change point. The rear apron pressing remained the same (with the big hole in the middle), but the chrome license light covered the hole, and there were plinths added to carry the turn signals. (Later cars have the plinths pressed into the apron.)<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]If I replace it with the combo brake and license plate lamp assembly, is the center brake light functional? ie three brake lights- My new screw connector wiring harness doesn't run a brake wire to the center--[/QUOTE]You would have to run an additional wire to the center brake light to make it work. Not too hard, but an extra step.<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]How important is all this--will I be penalized for incorrect fittings-[/QUOTE]Yes, even if you never enter a show! Sooner or later, someone will be telling you it's "wrong" ... even if it isn't.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]If you're not nuts already, just try to restore a basket case LBC[/QUOTE]No thanks! I'm quite crazy enough already, thank you very much

 

[angelfj1]

Emmett: If you need a good reference for what is original, I recommend that you go to the Triumph Register of America and download the Judging Guide.

Go to https://www.triumphregister.com/NewsEvents.html

Scroll to the bottom of the page and click on, "Download the TR2/3 TRA Judging Standards and Restoration Guidelines Manual"

Membership is not required and the download is free.

Good luck.