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Heritage Trust Certificate ERROR?

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wangdango

wangdango

Jedi Hopeful
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I finally after owning our BJ8 since 1986 sent away for the Heritage Certification and I was SHOCKED when I got it back today. The car is and has always been since our ownership BRG with black vinyl interior. I know the car was originally red as it is under the bonnet, the boot, on the frame, under the dash, etc. And I am 99% sure the interior was originally black, (the rear seats are original and so is the parcel shelf. The certificate states the car was Healey blue, with blue interior and a blue top. The car chassis # is correct, but the engine # is not, (I have not removed the tunnel to check the trans #). The body # tag is not there anymore and was never there since our ownership. I have had all the body panels off and there is no sign of an accident that would result in mis-matched #'s. Just as a reference, the car/chassis # is:H-BJ8-40300, the engine # in the car is 29k/ru/H14837, (certificate says it should be 15006. Can anyone shine any light on this? I am very puzzled and think perhaps the certificate wrong? Any help would be great.
Thanks
Ed
 
There are a few possibilities as to how it happened but it sounds like you have the incorrect VIN plate on your car. How long does it take to change it out - two minutes?
 
It is entirely possible that BMIHT sent you the data for another car. The BJ8 Registry has a collection of certificates for 940 BJ8s and errors on them are distressingly common considering what is being charged for them. BMIHT will replace an incorrect certificate at no charge if they are made aware of the error(s). However, they will not change any data if the original build record has it incorrect as well.

The easiest way to check the gearbox serial number is to put the car up on jack stands or on a lift. The serial number can be seen from below the car, on the passenger's side (LHD cars) as shown in the attachment.

The original engine for chassis 40298 was 14720 and the engine for chassis 40309 was 14945, so it would appear that the engine in your car now (14837) is original and BMIHT is wrong on that point.

I would like to remind everyone that the BJ8 Registry is not just a simple list of VINs and current owners, but a database of original manufacturing details, current configurations, and ownership history for -- currently -- 8,863 BJ8s, or more than 50% of total production) that can and has frequently been a useful resource to answer similar questions. And the more of you out there who have not contributed the details of your BJ8 to the registry who will do so, the greater the value of the registry as a resource to the Healey and BJ8 communities will be.

Ed, you have a private message.
 

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  • Gearbox Serial Number 1.jpg
    Gearbox Serial Number 1.jpg
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There are a number of known inconsistencies were heritage certs that have been identified by comparing certs for the same car that were issued at different times. Hopefully, Steve Byers will drop in and share some of his knowledge on this subject (Edit - hey, Steve! Thanks for dropping by)....
 
Ed, is the 40300 number stamped on the right hand shock tower? Not sure it appears on every BJ8 (mine has the VIN there) but I would check to see if it matches the plate.
 
If the chassis number isn't on the shock tower as Hugh suggests, you might also try a Heritage search using the engine number and see if that car matches the original colors of your car. Might turn up its true identity if the chassis plates have been switched. OTOH, you might want to avoid giving that sleeping hound a kick.
 
There may be " inconsistencies" but his certificate describes a completely different car. If you find a different number on the shock tower I would research that quietly.
 
Brinkerhoff said:
There may be " inconsistencies" but his certificate describes a completely different car. If you find a different number on the shock tower I would research that quietly.
Click to expand...
My Healey had a completely different vin number on the Title versus the Shock Tower. With the help of Steve Byers we were able to get everything all straightened out and the Title is now correct for the car.
 
I was mistaken, the body tag is still there but it was painted over and a brake line party hides it. This # is NOT the same # on the certificate. I have not looked at gearbox # yet, but did look for the # on the shock/frame part on the right front and a prior owner has welded a new piece of steel over it if it was there originally. So, only # on the certificate that is a "match" is the car/chassis #. This certificate must be wrong. What should I do?
 
It is more likely that the chassis number plate was switched than that the body number plate was switched. I would advise being prepared to discover that your Healey is not the chassis number/VIN that you have always known it as, and in fact it is a different car with the body number still correct for it. I didn't say that that is the case; I'm saying that it looks very possible.
 
I agree , the more info you give the less good it looks. Fact is , there isn't an easier car to commit fraud with since only two sheet metal screws hold the tag on, its easy to switch.
 
I agree it would be very easy to switch out either of the tags, but IF the chassis plate was changed the question I have is WHY? I know the car has never been in an accident, the original body color was red and the top, interior were and are black. The certificate states that my chassis plate's details are a Healey blue car with blue interior, and blue top. My plan is to give the other #'s to them and ask for them to check for an error.
 
We're all guessing here, but let's think of one scenario. A thief steals a red Healey and needs to register it. Can't use the original chassis number, so goes to a junkyard and takes a chassis plate from one of those Healey blue cars to register it with those numbers. Much easier to do in the pre-computer days.
 
The right floorboard has the vin number stamped on it and if your floorboards aren't too rusted you'll be able to see it. It's under the original tar paper covering and is Not large. Look near the center and maybe use white flour to view it.
 
The good news is you have a good VIN number ! At this point I'm sure anybody interested in finding the red car has given up , so maybe its time to paint yours blue? There are much worse things that could be in play here; the car could have been bent in half and rebuilt using junk parts and a poor welder ! At least you have a decent car. A 63 E type just sold on Bring A Trailer with a SALVAGE title for huge money . I have restored a lot of cars and I would never invest 100k into a car with a salvage title. That just doesn't wash off.
 
Unless the Heritage Certificate has multiple major errors that explain this situation, this certainly sounds worrisome. Most people changing VINs are not up to any good. Unfortunately, a lot of cars - of various marques - have VIN and body tag irregularities. In the case of Healeys, the Heritage Certificates are now turning up things thought long hidden.

Changing VIN tags on a car when theft is not involved also can happen. One can, for example, swap the VIN from a blue Healey to a red Healey of the same type and year when doing a complete restoration. If one owns several similar cars (or finds one in a junk yard) and wants to restore the best condition chassis, why not pick the VIN tag that goes with the color one wants? Unless one looks for the various other places on the car where numbers may be stamped, no one will ever know. One can also swap the engine tag from block to block to match the numbers on the Heritage Certificate.
 
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