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Post-War Other Herald Oil Leak Help

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frankenstang57

frankenstang57

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1147engine.jpg


Hey guys,I need some input on my oil leaking Herald. I put it back on the road for the first time in 32 years. It runs like a top. I went through 2 gallons of oil in 500 miles. It appears to be coming from the back of the motor. So I purchased a rear seal from Spitbits (#61) thinking a 1147 is an 1147... Wrong. I've got the thing apart and it has no seal. What gives? Any suggestions of what might actually be leaking? I know as a fact it's not the valve cover and there is evidence of oil in the bell housing. I'd really hate to throw it back together and have it still leaking. Thanx!
 
Just a WAG... have you checked #84 the front seal?
How about the oil pan?... maybe that's the source of your leak.
How is the oil pressure line that feeds the oil pressure gauge?
Is the oil canister that holds the oil filter leaking?

8 quarts in 500 miles? wholly Shi... well, you know :whistle:
 
It looks as if cover #60 on the diagram is machined for the seal #61 that you bought.

Do you mean your engine had no rear seal back there at all? Was part #61 not cut out for one, or maybe the PO just forgot to install it?

Does part #60 on the diagram look like the rear cover on your engine?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Have you checked #84 the front seal?
How about the oil pan?... maybe that's the source of your leak.
How is the oil pressure line that feeds the oil pressure gauge?
Is the oil canister that holds the oil filter leaking?

8 quarts in 500 miles? wholly Shi...[/QUOTE]

The drip turned into a stream. Front seal? No. Positive,after I first started it it was leaking at the rear. There is no way it could be dripping in the rear. The car has no oil pressure gauge,just a light. It's not leaking there. The oil filter is a spin on type.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]It looks as if cover #60 on the diagram is machined for the seal #61 that you bought.

Do you mean your engine had no rear seal back there at all? Was part #61 not cut out for one, or maybe the PO just forgot to install it?

Does part #60 on the diagram look like the rear cover on your engine? [/QUOTE]

Part #60 looks just like mine, but is not machined for a seal. It has a bunch of funky grooves in it. The car has never been apart as far as I can tell. I looked at another 1147 I pulled out of a Herald, same thing. Anyone know if a #60 off of a 1500 will work? It seems like a far better design.
 
I think #61 is the rear crank seal. It should be there or the engine will leak oil into the bell housing, probably about 2 gals per 500 miles.
 
Looking at information on the Spitfire and GT6 Magazine reference pages and Victoria British's catalog, it looks like the early 1147 engines had a scroll-type rear oil seal like the TR2-TR4A. They show the rear oil seal changing at FC69120 and FC79642 for the Spitfire MkII and the latter specifically mentions "crankshaft real oil seal revised to silicon rubber seal in aluminum"
(Victoria British's catalog has a note A on the rubber seal with numbers and the date shows 1966 on).

I'm sure Andy has more information on this though and will chime in when he sees it. The scroll-type seal should work reasonably well if aligned properly.

Scott
 
100_4590.jpg


Top cover is the Herald's, bottom is a Spitfire 1500.


100_4586.jpg


It would work on the 1147 if the crank didn't have the grooves. I'll agree, it must use the scroll-style seal. Next question, where do I find one? Oh Andy...
 
Sorry I'm late, gang! :blush:

It would appear that the early scroll type part numbers are not to be found new. There's perhaps the slimmest of possibilities that it's only misaligned; more likely it's worn. I honestly don't know if it's possible to update to the lip-type seal or not (might involve machining the scroll end of the crank?) But maybe you could find a better used rear seal housing, get a new gasket, and carefully align it? (One of your parts cars might have a good seal housing?)
 
The scroll-type seal is the rear housing with grooves in combination with the grooves on the crank. It is interesting to see that the housing component is a single piece on the Herald/Spitfire while it's split on the TR2-4A.

So if the oil is leaking from this area perhaps it wasn't centered correctly?

Scott
 
That's not the news I was hoping for! I mean the poor thing only has 32k on it. I heard they used wood or something to seal it. Do you have any picture of said seal? Mine are just as you see. Now if it's something I could make... I guess I could filll the grooves with JB Weld and use the 1500 cover/seal.
 
I do have a question.
If that's the seal I think it is, which is the simple act of the screw of the scroll turning that returns oil to the crankcase, how much oil did you have in it?

If you put too much oil in, it will run out (see Model "A" Ford).
And, if you keep filling it to what you THINK is the full mark, it will use, oh, let's guess two gallons in 500 miles.

I am guessing worn rear main will gush a whole lotta oil out and affect the drippage rate significantly.

Maybe that's why it was parked 32 years ago?
 
If the rear of the crank is the same diamemter on a Hearld 1147 as a Spitfire 1147, could a speedisleeve be used and then use a Spitfire 1147 rear crank seal?
 
When I took my 1147 spitfire engine apart I had what I think your looking for. It was a seal I hadn't seen before that was threaded and then a fabric seal used around it. Send me a PM and I can maybe look for it in my box of parts.
 
tomgt6 said:
https://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Triumph-S...=item1e5b6bd8be

Here is listings for a new cover. This is what I was thinking about. ...
Click to expand...
Oooh, worth grabbing at (or near) that price, since the parts are NLA!

And if this helps (from a Standard 10 -- same engine, more or less -- workshop manual):

<span style="font-style: italic">Position a new paper joint to the rear face of the crankcase with grease and lightly bolt the rear oil seal to this face. Insert a feeler gauge of approximately .003" thickness and tap the oil seal until equal clearance between the crankshaft and oil seal has been obtained all around. If the seal touches the shaft at any point, oil will leak along the point of contact. Finally tighten the bolts to the correct torque {16-18 lb.ft.}.</span>

oilseal72.jpg
 
Thanx Ken, Tom,and Dave for the offers of parts. I have at least 3 of this style cover and one with the rubber seal. I like the idea of the easy sleeve. Where might I find one? Andy, is there more to the seal then just this back cover, or is the cover the seal? You know, like wood or some other organic matter that could have disintegrated? I wish I'd have known about the misalignment issue. I could have checked it. What would cause the cove to become misaligned?
 
Well, I can't answer your new question but us Herald guys have to stick together. Also since you have a spitfire that make you part of the spit crew.

Our new goal is for the Herald, Spit and GT6 guys to take over the forum vs the TR guys.
 
tomgt6 said:
Well, I can't answer your new question but us Herald guys have to stick together. Also since you have a spitfire that make you part of the spit crew.

Our new goal is for the Herald, Spit and GT6 guys to take over the forum vs the TR guys.
Click to expand...

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
 
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