Help with vin decoding

[pbraun]

Hi, all, I just am about to get a new for us Bugeye! Seems it's registered as a 61, but may be an actual 1960 built car. I will get a British Heritage Certificate to find out, but in the meantime, does anyone have the ability to interpret the numbers within a time period like 60, or 61?

VIN: AN5L 43671

Body: AN5 42821

Engine: 9C-UH 46899

Car has a 949, front disc brakes, twin 1 1/8" SUs... smooth trany case.

Much thanks!

 

[59diamond]

According to Terry Horler the first car built in January 1960 was AN5L30215 and the last fully assembled Sprite at Abingdon was AN5L49584. So your vin # is 1960.
13441 left hand Drive Sprites were exported in 1960.
If you don't have Terry Horlers Book you should get one.

 

[drooartz]

Congrats on the new Bugeye!

You're probably aware, but cars at that time were often titled when sold, and not when built. The Brits didn't start the "model year" concept until much later. To add to the detail, that VIN is somewhere between July and October 1960.

The Horler book mentioned is "Original Sprite & Midget" by Terry Horler (Motorbooks International). It's the best reference out there for these little cars.

https://www.amazon.com/Original-Spr...40&sr=8-1&keywords=original+sprite+and+midget

 

[Gerard]

Hi, all, I just am about to get a new for us Bugeye! Seems it's registered as a 61, but may be an actual 1960 built car. I will get a British Heritage Certificate to find out, but in the meantime, does anyone have the ability to interpret the numbers within a time period like 60, or 61?

VIN: AN5L 43671

Body: AN5 42821

Engine: 9C-UH 46899

Car has a 949, front disc brakes, twin 1 1/8" SUs... smooth trany case.

Much thanks!

My car was built about 1500 before yours and is a June 1960 build.

FYI, there are no North American or Home market cars built in '61. Less than 50 '61's were built, and they were all *CKD's, built in Australia.

*Completely Knocked Down, meaning exported to another country in pieces, to be assembled and completed in that country. Australian cars have a different VIN code sequence as well. CKD's were not uncommon in a variety of different countries, and with a variety of British cars.

 

[Gerard]

Hi, all, I just am about to get a new for us Bugeye! Seems it's registered as a 61, but may be an actual 1960 built car. I will get a British Heritage Certificate to find out, but in the meantime, does anyone have the ability to interpret the numbers within a time period like 60, or 61?

VIN: AN5L 43671

Body: AN5 42821

Engine: 9C-UH 46899

Car has a 949, front disc brakes, twin 1 1/8" SUs... smooth trany case.

Much thanks!

My car was built about 1500 before yours and is a June 1960 build. FYI, there are no North American or Home market '61's. Less than 50 '61's were built, and they were all *CKD's, built in Australia.

*Completely Knocked Down, meaning exported to another country in pieces, to be assembled and completed in that country. Australian cars have a different VIN code sequence as well. CKD's were not uncommon in a variety of different countries, and with a variety of British cars. Also, except for a Girling brake upgrade offered by Donald Healey company, Bugyes were never standard qui[[ed with disc brakes, but it is a very common, and long done conversion.

 

[Whitephrog]

43788 was built 18 July 1960

 

[AN5Sprite]

My old car was #41028 and had a build date in the second week of June '60.

 

[pbraun]

Very cool. I am ordering Horler's book today! Thanks so much!

Happy and Safe Motoring to all!

 

[JPSmit]

Very cool. I am ordering Horler's book today! Thanks so much!

Happy and Safe Motoring to all!

To be clear, Horler does not break down VIN's by day - only year - the exact build dates come from heritage certificates - the monthly from clever math. That said, it is still worth owning the books for history & year to year changes.

 

[CLEAH]

Peter,

Note that the "body" number you quote is not actually the body number. The number you quote was likely found on a plate on the left hand hinge pillar. That number was not recorded on factory records and does not correspond to anything that is known. The body number is found on the right hand hinge pillar and always has a "BAE" prefix. The Vin, body, and engine numbers will appear on a Heritage certificate. The VIN and the BAE will likely never be the same, but can be very close. My VIN is 5346, and my BAE is 5345, unusually close!

Congratulations on the new Sprite!

 

[pbraun]

Thanks@! I was confused about that.

 

[lewmac]

That's a very early Bugeye to be just one apart. As the build went on, the number gaps increased.

While it may be true that the Factory Commission number or Order # starting with AN5 was not recorded, that number is in the same ballpark as the VIN, BAE and Engine numbers as well as the Body Stamp #. I have checked now on 7 Bugeye's and there is a pattern....it is also obvious when one number is an incorrect plate, as most are within 1000 numbers apart. For example, my keeper Bugeye is a late build with:

VIN# AN5L 46055
BAE# 45388
Body Stamp # 45957
Comm # AN5 45183
Engine # 9C-U-H/ 45897

Date ~ Oct 1960

Cheers

Lew

Peter,

Note that the "body" number you quote is not actually the body number. The number you quote was likely found on a plate on the left hand hinge pillar. That number was not recorded on factory records and does not correspond to anything that is known. The body number is found on the right hand hinge pillar and always has a "BAE" prefix. The Vin, body, and engine numbers will appear on a Heritage certificate. The VIN and the BAE will likely never be the same, but can be very close. My VIN is 5346, and my BAE is 5345, unusually close!

Congratulations on the new Sprite!

 

[pbraun]

Now, I need more clarification, please. In terms of which # is located exactly where. I think I know about these:

VIN # - On the rectangular Black and Silver plate from Austin, on the left chassis member, sort of under the carbs.
Engine # - On the plate, on the block top, next to front of head, two rivets.

These I am not 100% sure of:

Commission # - Is that the one on the left front door closure panel?
(CLEAH is calling this the body #) BAE # - Is this the "body #" on the right door closure panel?
Body Stamp - ? What is this and where is it located?

Still somewhat cloudy, but normal......Thanks all for your helpful guidance!

Happy New Year!

 

[CLEAH]

Peter, yes it is a bit confusing. I believe you said that you ordered Terry Horler's book, which is good, because he thoroughly covers Mk1 Sprite identification on pages 42 and 43. For purposes of this discussion,there are three numbers that the factory recorded and that will appear on the Heritage certificate that you will likely order. Those are:

1) Car/Chassis number. This is what we Yanks call the VIN and it is on the plate in the engine room with an AN5 prefix.
2) Engine number.
3) Body number. This is the number on the plate affixed to the right hand hinge pillar that will have the prefix BAE. Note that your Heritage certificate will only show the number, not the prefix.

There are a bunch of other numbers sprinkled around the car that were used for manufacturing purposes, but are not recorded. Some will correspond to the BAE number. Some will not. There is one on a plate in the left hand hinge pillar, a stamp on the bulkhead just below where the wiring harness passes though, and numbers written in crayon on the rear bulkhead, on the back of the dashboard, and the underside of the bonnet. The crayon ones are usually gone, but often the one behind the dash survives. Read all about it in Horler's book!

 

[smaceng]

The information you got from CLEAH is correct:
Body number: BAE xxxxx plate located on the right door jamb (plate secured with two screws). This number can also sometimes (rarely) found on the underside of the bonnet, backside of the instrument panel, and on the rear axle tunnel. These numbers were written in crayon to allow for the body parts to be reunited with the chassis during the assembly process.
VIN number or chassis number plate as the factory called it is located on the frame by the carbs (secured with two screws).
Additional numbers: AN5-XXXXX plate located on the left door jamb (secured by two screws)......not recorded anywhere and does not apply to either the Body # or the Chassis #. Sometimes called the Commission #.
XXXXX number stamped on the top footwell panel near where the main wires exit the interior: Sometimes called the Thompson # as it was believed it was stamped by Thompson Stamping Company on the raw chassis (not recorded anywhere).

As already stated, usually all these numbers were numerically close to one another, within a 1000 if all the parts were from the same car.
My 60FROG had a Chassis # of AN5L 30409
a Thompson # of 30441, a body # of BAE 30592 (according to Heritage certificate....no plate on the car).
and an engine # 30665 of the original 948 engine (long since gone).

Hope this is clear as mud! Scott in CA

 

[pbraun]

Well, beginning to get clearer. Must clean up some stuff and look for that Thompson number. and get the BAE # . Then I will order the Heritage Certificate. Thanks!

Is the Thompson # on the interior of the car or in the engine compartment under the bonnet?

 

[fordtrucks4ever]

According to a catalog from Anglo Parts in Belgium that specializes in 1958-64 Sprites/Midgets, they refer to body number as the one on left door post. They make no acknowledgement to the BAE number on right door post.

My Bugeye has a vin of AN5 479XX and wasnt titled until 1962.

 

[Gerard]

According to a catalog from Anglo Parts in Belgium that specializes in 1958-64 Sprites/Midgets, they refer to body number as the one on left door post. They make no acknowledgement to the BAE number on right door post.

My Bugeye has a vin of AN5 479XX and wasnt titled until 1962.

Doesn't matter... that is incorrect, at least when it comes to the Bugeye. BMIHT doesn't track that number and it's pretty much meaningless when it comes to determining when anything specific about the production date of the car,.The information about the BAE number presented previously is factually correct for the Bugeye, but not MKII's as the prefix changed, and the location of this significant tag moves to the left side. Prefixes for the MKII Sprite ABL, and for the MKI Midgets GBE. This is also documented by Terry Horler in the book MG Midget & Austin Healey Sprite: All Models, and can be previewed herein greater detail, including later models.The number stamped on the top of the footwell box, near the firewall was not recorded either. As stated earlier, they are usually somewhat close, but there is no pattern to it other than being within approximately 1000 number sequence apart.

One of my Bugeyes came to me without any data plates except the two door plates. When inquiring with BMIHT, on determining the chassis/VIN number back in early 1997, I received a personally hand written note from former archivist Anders Detlev Clausager, stating that he could provide the original chassis number if I could provide the BAE door plate number. So, you can take that bit of information "to the bank". Anyone who has a BMIHT certificate for their Bugeye will see this number recorded on their certificate, but not the other door plate number.

Historically n the US, import cars were "dated" by when they were sold, not by when they were manufactured, so other than to the DMV, it has little validity as to the year,and model. That has since changed. Furthermore, there are probably many instances when a title was lost and someone guessed at what year it was. As proof of that, I own a mid-year 1960 production Bugeye that is titled as a '59.

P.S. 479xx is approximately an October 1960 manufacture.

 

[pbraun]

I think you're on track, Gerard. Thank you for your input.