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HELP! something broke in the rear end...

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too bad, but it still might be more simple to fix than swapping out the whole diff.

A tr4 rear axle is too wide. A local guy stopped by my garage in his tr4 with a tr3 diff, and the tires rub on the fender wells when it hits any bumps. I would think the same would be true trying to fit the wider diff I to the narrower car.
 
6969ronin6969 said:
Thanks for the offer big6, I'll PM you shortly.

After I got home from work today I jacked up the driver side and with some effort I was able to turn the wheel. I let it down and jacked up the passenger side. I was able to turn this side with a little less effort, but it still wasn't free wheeling or anything. I had the car in 1st gear and marked the belt thinking that if I was turning the engine the belt would move. It didn't. I marked the drive shaft in front of the diff, but it wasn't moving either.

Any advice based on that? I am still lost. I would have assumed that I could have moved one side (the broken halfshaft side) with little effort and the other side would not have moved. Is my assumption wrong?

Thanks for the help!

Eric
Click to expand...

Hey Eric,

I'm trying to understand...with one wheel on the ground and the car in 1st, are you saying you can turn the free wheel? And when doing so the drive shaft IS also turning?

If that is the case, it doesn't sound like a diff problem. That sounds like gearbox or clutch.

For the axle breakage, if you lift one rear wheel at a time with the car in gear, the drive shaft will NOT turn...only the free wheel will turn.

John
 
John,

You are correct. Sorry I wasn't clear enough. With one wheel on the ground, and the car in gear, the drive shaft is not turning.

My confusion (which was probobly confusing everyone else) came in how I was expecting things to react. I have since had further discussions with a co-worker and the parts manual in front of us and now have my head around how things should be reacting.

Hopefully today I can drop the backing cover and see what I can see.

Eric
 
I don't know about the Lockheed axle but a lot of axles have the problem of spider gears. If they break, it's a no-go in exactly the same way.
Pull the back cover off and look for pieces. (you'll have to pull the cover anyway) By turning the rear wheels just like you already did you can see if gears or axle is broken and/or which one.
 
I can measure an axle when I get home tonight. But if you can get a picture, it's actually not hard to see the difference if you know where to look. On the TR3 axle, there is less than two inches between the mounting pad (where the axle attaches to the spring) and the flange where the brake backing plate and bearing housing attach. On the TR4 axle, that distance is closer to 4 inches.

Sorry I don't have a photo of a TR4 axle, maybe someone else can supply one. But here's a shot of the TR3.
 

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Brake backing plate to plate is 44 3/4", plus or minus 1/8". This should be about 4"'s wider than a 3 axle.
 
OK, I'm up to speed. What you describe is exactly how a broken axle will act. When you try to turn the broken side, it just turns the broken part attached to the wheel. If you reverse the jack and turn the unbroken side, you are then spinning the spiders and the inner broken axle is turning backwards...but you cannot see that happening until you pop the cover off. In both cases the resistance you feel is the rough edge of the fracture grinding.

I just skimmed through the old tech bulletins. I was looking for other things, but was surprised to find at least a half dozen bulletins just on Lockheed axle problems. Although your problem could be other things, like spiders, pinion, the ring gear...the most likely culprit is an axle.

I'm curious to find out where it broke. With luck, all the metal debris will be away from the center housing, making it easier to clean the tube and replace the axle. If it broke at the inner splines, then the diff carrier will have to come out to get cleaned up.

If your rear end looks like the pictures above (which is how mine looked), I would still lean to fixing the axle with the rear end in place. Removing a rusted, grease caked rear end turns into an adventure in removing frozen bolts. If your's is cleaned up, then it's really a toss up...


John




John
 
John,

Thanks for the replies. My axle looks more like the one in Randall's post above. As for replace the halfshaft versus swapping rear ends, it partially will come down to cost. So far the best I can find on a half shaft is twice as much as what I can get a whole Girling rear end for. I'll be able to tell more once I get the diff cover off. Last night my daughter had her orchestra concert so it'll be this wekend before anything really happens. I did get it jacked back up on jack stands and started spraying PB Blaster on a bunch of nuts and will continue today and tomorrow in hopes that it will make life a little easier.

Andrew,

Thanks for the picture, that clearly shows a good difference in width and the ~4" that Jim quoted just confirms it. Good to know so I don't potentially grab the wrong part.

Thanks again for all the help!

Eric
 
Eric, you're welcome; just glad I could help with a visual. For once, the jumbled mess that is my barn pays off!

Too bad you're not nearer Albany, NY. I'm really not interested in trying to ship something like this, but (as I've already mentioned to others) you could have your choice of TR3 or TR4 Girling axles for beer and pizza money. I'll never use any of them, and there just doesn't seem to be much demand for them around here.... :frown:
 
Andrew,

Agreed, I wish I was closer, but Albany is a bit of a drive from South Carolina...

Well, some more PB Blaster liberally applied this evening. Other than that, not much new to report.

Take it easy,

Eric
 
When pricing it all out, be sure to include costs like brakes, turning drums, and likely new seals...unless you are confident the new rear end is in decent shape. Any one that has been sitting will need a good bit of work...

John
 
Question while I am still pondering my options: what needs to happen if I want to swap axles? I know I need to go through the brakes and new, to me, axle condition in general. What I mean is can the axle be slide out the side or does one end of the springs need to be dropped? Anything else I'm missing?

Thanks,

Eric
 
Hey Eric,

I'm going from memory, but I am pretty sure the following will have to come off:

Drive shaft - 4 nuts and bolts
large u-bolts - 8 nuts
rear shock links - 2 nuts
handbrake cable - 1 pin
Axle straps - 4 bolts
haudraulic brake line - 1 nut and clip

The brake backing plates may also have to come off, but I am not positive about that. If you can jack the car high enough, and you have some lifting help, you can probably thread the rear end through the side with the plates on. I am sure someone else knows for sure, though.

What would concern me the most is the condition of a donor rear end. Most rear ends aren't pulled out because they are doing "great". Most will have issues, and you have to really trust the source that gives it to you. If you can't trust them, then you would be smart to open it up and check everything out.
I have never opened a rear end that did not need "some" TLC...

John
 
I'm not conviced you can get that differential out without pulling the brake backing plates. Those are probably 10" drum besides. Dropping the leaf springs does not help because the differential is above the frame.

Then again, as long as you keep the shim packs sorted, I would think pulling the axle shafts and brake backing plates off would be pretty straightforward (says the guy who hasn't done it before!).
 
Just for the heck of it, you can watch some TR blokes change out a TR2 rear axle on the 50th anniversary of the Jabbeke run in Belgium. They do it right in the parking lot of the hotel. It starts at about 14:15 into this one hour video.

Check out the owner of the car munching down on a sandwich while everyone else works on the car. He does however, put his final flourish on things when he makes sure the cotter pin is on OK. :laugh:
 
"Dropping the leaf springs does not help because the differential is above the frame." :wall: Yes, that little detail might make a difference...

Can't wait to get home to view the video, maybe I'll need to get a sandwich ready while I watch...

Thanks for the input!

Eric
 
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