Headlights and fog driving lights

[TR3driver]

VA Code doesn't specify how you use auxillary lamps

I'm no lawyer, but it looks to me like the VA code prohibits adding driving lights at all:

<span style="font-style: italic">§ 46.2-1020. Other permissible lights.

Any motor vehicle may be equipped with fog lights, not more than two of which can be illuminated at any time, <span style="font-weight: bold">one or two auxiliary driving lights<span style="text-decoration: underline"> if so equipped by the manufacturer</span></span>, two daytime running lights, two side lights of not more than six candlepower, an interior light or lights of not more than 15 candlepower each, and signal lights. </span>

 

[vagt6]

Well, I must confess: I'm guilty as charged (and so are lotsa other folks with aftermarket lamps)!!

 

[Member 10617]

Wow.... my pea-brain is confused. I thought headlights were "driving lights." Are they separate from the standard headlights? Do they supplement them in some way?

The fellow who works on my car when something is beyond me -- which is most of the time -- has said the same thing that Mark Brown has said: fog lights don't give you much more light going down the road.

My dilemma is that I now have very bright Xenon lights on the car which (a) blind drivers approaching me, (b) appear to give off an unnatural light, (c) are not in character with the car. I made a mistake in having them installed in the car. (Interestingly, the Xenon lights also have standard lights or filaments on the low beam, so it's bright white when Xenons are on and yellow-white when they are off.) Very confusing....

 

[TR3driver]

Wow.... my pea-brain is confused. I thought headlights were "driving lights." Are they separate from the standard headlights? Do they supplement them in some way?

Well, I suppose the proper name is "auxilliary driving lights", but most people just call the "driving lights". Take a look at the photos above to see some pretty examples. Typically, the period setup was for one fog light and one driving light, with a switch that would select one or the other. As noted, a "fog light" should light only the ground immediately in front and to the sides of the car; and is intended for use only at very low speeds (when the fog blocks any farther view of the road). A "driving light" provides a much more concentrated beam, pointed straight down the road, with the intention of lighting objects as far away as possible, and is intended for use only when there are no other drivers within range.
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:](Interestingly, the Xenon lights also have standard lights or filaments on the low beam, so it's bright white when Xenons are on and yellow-white when they are off.) Very confusing.... [/QUOTE]
Hmm, that sounds like you have HID (High Intensity Discharge) bulbs for high beam and halogen bulbs for low beam. It is very confusing, because HID bulbs are typically filled with xenon gas; plus some halogen bulbs are filled with Xenon gas (in addition to the halogen); plus there are some bulbs around that are called 'Xenon' but actually have no xenon in them at all, just a colored filter so they look blue. (Much like a Dodge Neon has no neon gas in it either).

It's also worth noting, that even Xenon HID bulbs do not necessarily emit that funny blue light. They are available in a variety of "color temperatures" but it seems that most people opt for the higher color temperatures in the mistaken belief that they are "brighter" or "whiter". Typically they don't actually emit as much light as the lower color bulbs; and the excess blue component actually makes it harder to see.

Anyway, just as a suggestion, you might consider replacing your HID bulbs (if that is what they are) with bulbs in the 4000K-4500K range. That would give you a color similar to the halogen low beams. Then get the low beams aimed so they don't blind anyone. And don't use your high beams when there is anyone to be blinded by them!

 

[Member 10617]

Randall,

Yes, you are right: there are definitely HID bulbs for high beams and possibly halogen for low beam.

Adding to the confusion is the fact that the person who installed the lights, and he has installed many on sports cars, wired it so the high beams light on the speedometer comes on when the low beams are on (halogen?) and the high beam light is off when the high beams (Xenon) are on! I asked about this and he said it was "standard procedure" in his shop.

I will ask at the shop about replacing the HID bulbs with bulbs in the 4000K-4500K range, and do as you suggest.

Do you have any opinion about the "appropriateness" of using HID bulbs in a 58TR3 or any other vintage roadster? I want to keep the car "authentic," but I also want to be safe on the road. It's a fine balancing act.

 

[TR3driver]

Do you have any opinion about the "appropriateness" of using HID bulbs in a 58TR3

Yes, I do.

<span style="font-size: 12pt">"It's your car, it should please you."</span>

In other words, it is a personal decision. IMO there is room in the hobby for all types, from the people who obsess over whether a particular bolt head 'should' be plated with cadmium or zinc; to those who drop in a Rover V8.

And I don't even see anything in the TRA judging standards about headlight bulbs, as long as they have the proper rims.

I've been toying with the idea of trying a HID conversion myself, now that they have H4 replacements that implement both low and high beam. I don't get out on dark roads at night very much, but when I do, it's really nice to be able to drive the speed limit without outrunning the headlights. And since the HID bulbs actually draw less power, it would let me keep going longer with the original generator.

Ok, I'll admit it, it would also be nice to be able to flash my headlights and have those SUV drivers notice!

 

[Member 10617]

Radall,

No doubt about it. The HID lights get attention. You'll be the brightest car on the road. I, too, try to avoid dark roads at night, but when I find myself rushing home at the end of a day of driving, it is nice to have the entire road ahead of me lighted up. And you are absolutely right about HID bulbs drawing less power. Less power, more light = what's not to like? I guess I think they are just too bright and "sparkly." I must admit now that when I get into my '58 TR3A, I am often transported back to 1962 and my '58 TR3A back then. I guess I'm just trying to hold on to that old feeling... ha, ha.

You are right that it's a personal decision. But I also feel a "responsibility" to the car to keep it as authentic as possible. But, whenever I begin to lose sleep over these issues, I remember what you once wrote me: "Ed, it's not the Space Shuttle. It's just a car." I laugh out loud whenever I recall those words of wisdom.

Many thanks.

 

[DNK]

Ed- My 2 cents, If your gonna change back to regular H4's. I would check out the Dan Stern site I posted and put 55/100 in your 3. I would suggest relays for those for your car. That way you don't blind the on coming but when you want the brights. Boy have you got brights.

 

[Member 10617]

Don,

I don't know what I am going to do. My objection to the HID lights is perhaps purely "aesthetic," and that may not be the way to think about them. I put them in because someone convinced me that they would give me the amount of light I would need and draw less power. I may just bite the bullet and keep them in. In fact, all this may be purely theoretical because I avoid driving at night whever possible.

But I will check out the site, and thank you for the tip.

 

[DNK]

Don't worry about the power. The 55's are fine for around town and such.
And they don't bug other drivers

 

[justin_mercier]

Not for everyone, but I just ordered a pair of the AutoLoc Tri Bar headlights for my TR6. They look better than the sylvania h6024xv lamps that I have been using, and use replaceable H4 bulbs.

https://www.thehoffmangroup.com/autoloc/product.lasso?prodinc=headlights

 

[TRMark]

I converted my TR4 to an alternator, installed a relay and heavier wiring in the headlight circuit and use Sylvania Silverstars. Much more light than the originals. I often drive at night in forested areas and like the rest of the country, we are over run with deer.

 

[Member 10617]

I'm still confused - or in a "fog."

I know what fog lights are.

I know what headlights are (daytime running lights? High beam and low beam).

But what are auxiliary driving lights?

 

[vagt6]

Lex, auxiliary lamps, generally speaking, are lights that are in addition to your factory headlights: fog lamps; spot lamps, driving lamps, etc.

Fog lamps = auxiliary lamps intended for for low visibility, bad weather driving conditions to illuminiate the sides or the road, close-up;

Driving lamps = auxiliary lamps inteneded to provide long-distance illumination. These can include driving lamps; pencil beam lamps, etc.

Spotlights are auxiliary lamps that include the type you might see on cop cars, often mounted near the A-pillar with a hand device inside the cockpit for moving the lamp.

That's how I understand it . . . :thumbsup:

 

[Member 10617]

Mark,

Thanks. That makes it clear to me. So some of those nice lights I see attached to the front of cars are not fog lights but "driving lights" that supplement the headlights. And sometimes there is a fog light/driving light combination.

Probably with the HID lights I currently have on the car, I wouldn't need the driving lights unless I removed the HID lights and installed standard seal beam lights. That's how it seems to me.

 

[vagt6]

Lex, also, fog lamps are best mounted down low under the bumper, often in the molded plastic surround in modern cars.

Driving lamps are generally best mounted a bit higher, in line with headlights or even higher (as in Bubba trucks with the rows of lamps on the roof).

Plus, to make things more confusing, here at BCF we tend to mix British nomenclature with American which can make one's head explode: fender/wing; light/lamp; muffler/silencer, hood/bonnet, etc., etc.

Crazy, but fun!

 

[TR3driver]

Probably with the HID lights I currently have on the car, I wouldn't need the driving lights unless I removed the HID lights and installed standard seal beam lights.

 

[Twosheds]

But, whenever I begin to lose sleep over these issues, I remember what you once wrote me: "Ed, it's not the Space Shuttle. It's just a car." I laugh out loud whenever I recall those words of wisdom.

Many thanks.

I wrote you that, not The Randall. While The Randall contributes so much he was awarded for it, and rightly so, I can contribute so little, I crave credit for what mite I actually can contribute!

You're welcome!

 

[DrEntropy]

:lol:

My 2p:

All my personal cars have Cibie or Lucas eqiupment. H4's (55/100) in the headlamps, the auxiliarys are one fog (fluted lens, disperses the light low and WIDE) and one pencil beam (non-fluted lens, can illuminate WELL forward). Switched, fused and relay'd. Only concession to "conformity" is they can only be powered when the main lights are (running lights or headlamps) on. i.e. when tail-lamps are on. Separate switch, two position standard Lucas headlamp unit. First position powers only the fog lamp, second position powers both.
<span style="font-style: italic">
EDIT: Pencil beam on driver's side, fog on passenger's.</span>

 

[TR3driver]

I wrote you that, not The Randall.

At least it wasn't me.