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Head porting 6 Cyl

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TonyPanchot

TonyPanchot

Jedi Trainee
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Hi All,
Looking for a firm to port and polish my intake and head

Thanks Guys
 
Definitely Ted Schumacher. He does good work, and he KNOWS these cars.

Call Ted, you won't regret it. :yesnod:
 
A much better bloke (in the USA) is Kai Raddicke Wishbone classics.
He does know he is doing but is a pain to contact.

If you want a job like that doing, he's the best in the USA, (apart from importing a proper one).

https://www.wbclassics.com/about-us
 
YEP I discussed a lot of interesting issues with this guy, and he's probably one of the VERY FEW competent engineers working with these cars.

I had initially questioned why bother,- when he could easily earn better money elsewhere.
He actually likes these cars, and had done quite a lot of sensible development work mostly on his own.

There's only about 2/3 people worldwide working at this level.
 
Oh yeah, being a engineer makes you better with your hands, LOL, I make my living doing work for engineers :smile: You know when you don't know any better, it always sounds more impressive. Suggs, sorry don't ever remember seeing that guy on the starting grid at the runoffs, and thats how I judge, the best of the best.

There's always been two types of guys going for the ultimate bragging rights at the top level or amatuer road racing in America, engineers vs mechinics, history shows mechinic have won more national championship, and I think I know the answer, because while most can lean book smarts, not all can learn hand skills, and how you handle the die grinder is the key, it's like playing a musical instrument, not everyone is going to play it the same.

One of the greatest head porters in America, who his heads probably won more national championships than anyone else, did not really know alot about heads or engines in general, he worked for the great Dave Tabor at Comptune Racing and was his son in law, he just ground and shaped how Dave told him, while he may not have understood the theory in what he was doing, he mastered the tool and could make it do anything he wanted to to. This guy's heads won more national championships than Huffaker, Group 44 and everyone else put together, he ported MG, Truimph, Fiat, you name it, and they all won championships with his heads.

So when it comes to head porting, yes it is smart to know what to do, but at the end of the day a skilled set of hands has to guide the tool, because a degree alone won't get you there.
 
Bottom line: there are a number of good shops that specialize in building these engines. Hap's "Acme" is one! Ask anyone!

Many competent LBC engine shops are unadvertised and unknown outside their relatively small sphere of influence. Gassman Automotive near me, in Waynesboro, VA, is is a great example. Old-school craftsmanship, reliable, and they dan fix darn near any LBC. I'd bet there's one like him near practically every major urban area in the States.

It isn't rocket science to build/modify a Triumph or MG engine, including the head work. These engines have been around almost a half century and there's lots of knowledge and experience that still exists.

The key: use a reputable shop who has good references, and also, who is well-entrenched in the LBC community. Can't go wrong. :yesnod:
 
To be fair Hap, I don't think Group 44 built customer engines :wink: .

I will say this. Your best racing cylinder head porters are not working on LBC's. They're in the V8 and Honda world since it pays. When I mean best, I mean as in ability to port and knowing what to do, and where the gains are. If you're building an all out engine, find the best porter you can (look for race results and quality of work). If you supply them with old cores to chop up, then they will know how far they can go. It's also going to be very expensive with a long lead time with the right people.

Remember, everything in your motor is designed around the cylinder head and how much it flows and at what lifts.

Anything less than going for a championship or world record, than I would keep it in the community.

My .02
 
I had no idea I this question was so loaded
 
Tony, you should know better than to illicit trouble on the bosses hobby.
 
Monkeywrench said:
To be fair Hap, I don't think Group 44 built customer engines :wink: .

I will say this. Your best racing cylinder head porters are not working on LBC's. They're in the V8 and Honda world since it pays. When I mean best, I mean as in ability to port and knowing what to do, and where the gains are. If you're building an all out engine, find the best porter you can (look for race results and quality of work). If you supply them with old cores to chop up, then they will know how far they can go. It's also going to be very expensive with a long lead time with the right people.

Remember, everything in your motor is designed around the cylinder head and how much it flows and at what lifts.

Anything less than going for a championship or world record, than I would keep it in the community.

My .02
Click to expand...


Bob, going big on ports for the street doesn't do much for the street and has it's limits on the race track, it's all about knowing what makes flow and having a flow bench to confirm that. The R&D window has pretty much already long discovered for our stuff, now it just down to those that can do a nice job of porting the head. I not always about pretty, I saw a Swiftune head out of the UK, one time, some of the prettiest porting work I ever saw, and the ports were mirror smooth, a big porting no-no, certain things work, certain shapes, and radiuses work, some don't. Really big port race heads only do one thing well, and thats WOT, so a different approach is need for the street. Porting a head is tough job, even if you good with the die grinder, you better double-triple eye protection at the first part of the job with the carbide bits, then when moving on to mounted stones and cartridge rolls, now airborn dust and breathing that stuff becaomes a issue, so you need at minimum a dust mast. Over the years I probably had to go to the doctors, or hospital 4-5 times to get something out of my eyes, and almost everytime it was porting a cylinder head.
 
Hap,

I don't doubt you, but any head porter worth his salt is looking to get the maximum amount of fps for a given lift (well, for a race motor, probably anything over .250 lift). This might mean welding or epoxying the ports to make them smaller (which is illegal in SCCA). So right, stay clear of the backyard, or old school grease monkey who just hogs ports out.

Those guys also had their own problems of being restricted to factory parts. To run up front on the National level in those days, you were looking at replacing rods every 2-3 races and cranks every 3-5. Not cheap considering these were brand new cars then. They were at the limit for the time period, people just didn't understand camshaft, porting, and exhaust system technology like they do now.
 
Monkeywrench said:
people just didn't understand camshaft, porting, and exhaust system technology like they do now.
Click to expand...

I'm afraid that's one of those most arrogant comments I have ever seen.

The fact is, there are maybe 2/3 or people worldwide who know what to do, with one of these heads.
I'm not going to go into the details, but all a flow bench can do is take out the guess work and direct efforts to a good experienced guy a bit more precisely...invariably meaning they got ONE port right years ago but sometimes had big variations on the others...

If you want to talk about proper figures at 10".
The best head bloke until recently was without a doubt BRITISH.

His heads flowed in the low 90cfm figures, and the engine a genuine 230-235bhp. (DIN), (not monkey US horsepower).

I have seen heads recently that outflow these by a nice margin....(OVER 100cfm), but to claim somehow that the guys from Cosworth etc didn't know what they were doing making the DFV and BDA is just ...well INSULTING.
One of my guys has been doing heads for 25 years an has turned out upwards of 9000 (!!!)

How do you think you have the right to come out with such stuff when they were building engines doing 150-200bhp/L when you were in shorts and going to school??

Most of the people in this game belong to a diminishing band already retired, dead or about to drop dead, or having trouble to hand on their experience to young people who only wanna play computer games....
(Ever heard of eg. Derrington, Mike Randall, Boxall?)

Just accept it. They know an AWFUL lot more than you, which is why a whole class of them are finding it hard to stop working and retire.
 
Hmm..

If you are who I think you are, then you're that headcase "GT". I'm not even going to bother arguing with you, and the fact that you've been run out of just about every forum you've ever posted on says it all. Have a good day.
 
Suggs,

This sounds like the usual argument from a Brit. Brits invented everything. Brits were the first and the best at everything and so on. The Brits bailed us out of WWII.... God Save The Queen!

That's all well and good if you're sitting in a pub with your mates. But please don't bring it over here. (we know better)

How in the world you feel it is appropriate to compare a Cosworth head to a Triumph TR6 head is beyond me. In fact that may be one of the least tenable statements since the Americans chased the Redcoats back across the pond in the 1700s.

Purpose built race engines are a different breed from the commercial production engines of the 70s. We have a saying, compare apples to apples. (Or was it a Brit who came up with that?)

"Chill Winston" don't be a wanker.

BOBH
 
Let's move on, shall we?

No need for slams, regardless of who knows more than whom. Or thinks so.
 
Unless I'm mistaken, the OP (Tony) wasn't interested in a race preped engine in the first place. Were you, Tony ?
 
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