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piman

Darth Vader
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Hello all,

there is a post in the Triumph section that touches on certain solvents being unobtainable as they are illegal.

I would say that we are fortunate in the U.K. as we have a vehicle club (Federation of British Historic Vehicle Clubs) that specifically monitors and lobbies parliament (and for us this also applies to the 'European Parliament') and has been quite successful in getting amendments and concessions with regard to various laws that affect the old vehicle movement.

For instance, solvent based paints, nitocellulose was the paint used for a lot of classic cars and that type of paint (and similar types) is banned. But thanks to the VBHVC the law was amended so that supply is allowed for historic vehicles.
The aim of the law is satisfied and the small scale use by the old vehicle movement will not cause a problem that the law was designed to control, so everyone benefits.

It brings a check to the laws that could affect a small proportion of the citizens that otherwise would not be able to do just by contacting their local M.P.

Alec
 
I fear we've a less accepting attitude here inna colonies. It's more like "Zero Tolerance" here. Well and truly protected from ourselves. bah.

Personally I think it's more jealousy based than a "practical" attitude. I wish they'd have a look into what it ~actually~ costs to produce a gallon of ethanol fuel vs. the "benefits".

Nation of Sheep, sez me. baaaah. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
Doc, I'm with you on the ethanol, it's really an illusion to think it saves money or resources. It's really good for corn growers, though! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif

Regarding hazardous substances, however . . .

Most of the banned substances such as solvents, paints, etc., are extremely dangerous to people and the environment. "Sheep" included! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif

Nasty stuff gets into the ground water, causes very ugly diseases, cancer, etc. Small quantities do a lot of harm.

Sure, it costs more to be green, but IMHO, it's worth every single penny! If we don't start now, our grandkids will have to pay the price.

With the environment, it's "pay me now, or pay me later"! No short cuts, no collect $200 at Go.
 
Play nice, Tony, play nice..................
 
I have often thought along the same lines as Alec, that a similar organisation over here would pay dividends for the hobby, but trying to get something started would be akin to herding those sheep!

Putting on my moderator's hat here:

It's a valid comment that Alec has made, we should not drawn into the specifics of government.....ANY government's policy, right or wrong or purely misguded.......if we limit the terms of the thread to a healthy discussion on whether or not it could work over here, and how we might be able to impliment such a thing on behalf of the hobby, perhaps we could take a step in that direction.

Okay, that said, let's throw it open. There are enough enthusiast clubs in existence here to carry sufficient clout, how could this be organised, and could it be funded efficiently?
 
A pretty good example of a specialty vehicle club that has significant impact on legislation is the American Motorcycle Association (AMA). The AMA lobbies for motorcycle-related issues as directed by it's Board. The AMA has significant impact and spends a lot of money on lobbying state and federal government.

It's difficult to compare the AMA to our hobby because of the huge target group that the AMA can draw from (e.g., motorcycles vs. LBCs). Let's face it, the universe of LBC enthusiasts is not a particularly huge one.

How about the antique auto clubs, which may include American muscle, vintage cars, etc.? Have LBC clubs such as the MG Car Club or VTR tried to hook up with other, antique auto clubs for the purpose of lobbying?

I have no idea, but someone with the LBC bunch must have tried to link with a larger auto-related group for the purpose of lobbying at some point.

Just wondering . . .
 
Mark said:
Nasty stuff gets into the ground water, causes very ugly diseases, cancer, etc. Small quantities do a lot of harm.

Sure, it costs more to be green, but IMHO, it's worth every single penny! If we don't start now, our grandkids will have to pay the price.
Click to expand...

Another consideration, Mark, which seems not to attract so much attention is the fact that PLASTICS (such as those used to largely construct CAR INTERIORS) give off vapors continuously. Especially at the elevated temps those interiors experience when left in direct sunlight for hours. Plastisizers are known carcinogens. We sit constantly in an environ containing them. Driving (grand)kids around in most modern cars exposes 'em and us to toxic levels. Very evil stuff, certainly ubiquitous in our lifestyle yet ignored by so many who profess to be environmentally aware.


<shrug>
 
[/quote]Another consideration, Mark, which seems not to attract so much attention is the fact that PLASTICS (such as those used to largely construct CAR INTERIORS) give off vapors continuously. Especially at the elevated temps those interiors experience when left in direct sunlight for hours. Plastisizers are known carcinogens. We sit constantly in an environ containing them. Driving (grand)kids around in most modern cars exposes 'em and us to toxic levels. Very evil stuff, certainly ubiquitous in our lifestyle yet ignored by so many who profess to be environmentally aware.


<shrug>
[/quote]

Yeah, go figure, Doc! There seems to be a group trying to protect everything today. I'm surprised that there's no one trying to legislate car dashboard outgassing!

But wait!! There probably is such a group somewhere in San Francisco right now, planning "outgassing" (i.e., lobbying) tactics for the '08 legislative session! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/sick.gif

Doc, please keep this dashboard plastic thing quiet, you might start a revolution! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smirk.gif
 
Most of the outgassing in my truck occures in the driver's seat. I don't think it meets the standard.
 
And, the world's <u>greatest</u> "outgassing" exercise is about to occur in Iowa at the primary! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif
 
Hello Mark,

"How about the antique auto clubs, which may include American muscle, vintage cars, etc.? Have LBC clubs such as the MG Car Club or VTR tried to hook up with other, antique auto clubs for the purpose of lobbying?"

That is exactly how the FBHVC came about and caters for all historic vehicles, two wheels, four wheels, commercial, buses etc. A collection of all wheeled interests.

We are, I think, all aware of the potential hazards of chemicals but a sense of proportion and responsibility will ensure that there will be a minimum hazard from their use.


Alec
 
vagt6 said:
And, the world's <u>greatest</u> "outgassing" exercise is about to occur in Iowa at the primary! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/lol.gif
Click to expand...
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif
And from all outward apperances its really gonna STINK too !
Other than that ...... to keep from instagating a political debate here in our forum I will refrain from further comment.
I do however fine it odd that the C.A.R.C. paint our Govt, uses on it`s equipment is about as poisonous as it gets and NO ONE complains. Where is the E.P.A. on this one?
 
Must...resist.. starting on.....ethanol..... GARBAGE!!! HOAX!!! CAR KILLER!!! AAAHHHGGGGGG!!!
Phew........ I'm OK.. I'm just getting sick of fielding complaints about fuel mileage and the current rash of Catalyst efficency codes (check engine light with a P0420 code) plauging our area. The only link I'm making is this being the first winter season with Ethanol blend in our local fuel supply.
 
Everytime I go to Europe I'm amazed at the lack of smog even with the more relaxed legislation on the continent versus the more stringent legislation here in the USA....& the more common use of diesel for cars over there compared to gasoline and ethanol over here.

...& that 6-speed Audi turbocharged diesel was a hoot to drive this past summer!
 
in a very general comment on the topic ...

Anyone been reading about all the bills that are submitted by committees to Congress at the last possible minute, and approved, with reps and senators freely acknowledging they've never read them?

argh

Tom
PS - one of the funny things about "getting together": I read often about local groups protesting they're being "railroaded" by their national association's leadership. Freedom vs. security again.
 
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