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good stuff? or waste of money

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eejay56

eejay56

Jedi Warrior
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What is the group wisdom on dual valve springs, lightweight alloy valve caps, and bronze guides? I'm doing a valve job, should I get the upgrade parts or would the money be better spent elsewhere? The engine is a desmogged high compression 1500 with a Weber DGV. Later I plan to add a fast road cam, lightweight flywheel and header. It's a daily (fast) driver and occasional autocrosser.
 
EJ, I think it's a waste of money on a street engine, even with the bigger cam, with the possible exception of the bronze guides. I had all those goodies on my F Production Spitfire, but it spent most of its time above 7000 RPM.
Jeff
 
save your money...dual valve spring carry higher spring pressure that mean more cam lobe wear. Aluminum valve spring retainers are a crapshoot for a street engine and bronze guides are great for race engine but iron guides will wear longer.

Practically speaking these aren't "upgrades" since none of these parts will make thge engine live longer...
 
YankeeTR said:
save your money...dual valve spring carry higher spring pressure that mean more cam lobe wear. Aluminum valve spring retainers are a crapshoot for a street engine and bronze guides are great for race engine but iron guides will wear longer.

Practically speaking these aren't "upgrades" since none of these parts will make thge engine live longer...
Click to expand...
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/iagree.gif

Finally a voice of sanity. For non-race cars, the most one gets from these enhancements is bragging rights. Perhaps for some that is reason enough to do these things.
 
Hello Yankee TR,

"Aluminum valve spring retainers are a crapshoot for a street engine"
I don't understand what that means?. However I guess that you are not in favour?
They are a nice to have as they do reduce the load on the valve train but for a street engine rarely worth fitting.

"and bronze guides are great for race engine but iron guides will wear longer."

There is a benefit to bronze guides in that they conduct heat better than cast iron so reduce the valve temperature and the effect of seat errosion.

Alec
 
piman said:
"Aluminum valve spring retainers are a crapshoot for a street engine"
I don't understand what that means?.
Click to expand...
What he means is that aluminum retainers sometimes "pull through", allowing the valve to fall into the cylinder. The results are not pretty.

Since the advantage of alloy retainers only shows up when you are revving high enough to have valve float, I agree they aren't appropriate unless you have made all the other modifications to make such high rpm useful. Which, from what I've heard about 1500's, means pitching it and finding a 1296 instead.

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]They are a nice to have as they do reduce the load on the valve train[/QUOTE]Again, at normal rpm, not by enough to even measure, let alone matter. Of course, once the valve drops into the cylinder, there'll be no load on the valve train at all /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif
 
I have heard a lot about the keepers pulling through aluminum retainers, if you really want alloy consider titanium.

When I did my engine this spring I asked many questions on this forum and other places and studied many options. I then worked out a plan with my engine re-builder. The result turned out great.

Just remember that changing one component most often effects other components. There are good suggestions here and some would not have been for me but might be exactly right for you.
 
TR3driver said:
.....they aren't appropriate unless you have made all the other modifications to make such high rpm useful.
Click to expand...

And on a 1500 that'll set you back about 9 grand. Feel free to ask me how I know this. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/rolleyes.gif
Jeff
 
Thanks, that's why I asked before spending money. Where would you recommend spending money on the bottom end? I plan to do that late winter.
 
I agree a waist of money. I read all the info about upgrading ones engine and in the valve spring issue I got caught up in the you must, you must, you must. After I gathered all my parts and did all the machining my engine builder recommended not using them. Duel springs are way too much spring pressure. He pointed out about all the cam failers many have been experiencing with premature ware and was blaming it on poor modern lifters that can't handle stock spring pressures let alone increased pressured ones. Any way I ended up using my stock springs with the inside springs from the new set. Only increased the pressure I think 4 pounds. He bought the main springs form me for a race prepared spitfire motor.

If you have increased compression and a hotter cam to get the most out of the combo I would port the heads so your engine breathers better. You'll get more air fuel mixture in and back out which equals more power. Install headers too. The last thing is to degree the cam. Get it as close to perfect timing with the crank as possible. You won't believe the difference.
 
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