Good Deal on New Vehicles?

[tony barnhill]

Thing everybody forgets is that those of us who tow don't want to feel a strain on the truck - nor do we want to lose our take off ability....I want my truck to perform with a loaded trailer behind it just as it does without one.

My 5.9L V8 Dodge doesn't know my trailer is behind it; empty, with an MG on it or with my Corvette on it! I can get off the line as quickly as most cars; I can hold highway speeds going up the steepest hill I've had to climb....& I can put it in cruise on the interstate & run 70mph forever.

Will a hybrid do that with a fully loaded trailer behind it? If not, I don't want one!

Tow rating doesn't answer the question: torque does.....let's see: 2,000 pound MGB on a 5,000 trailer....hmmmm, think towing with those6,100 tow capacity GM hybrids would be like trying to tow with a 2.8L 4-cylinder!

 

[aerog]

Hybrid truck? Unless you're talking about an El Camino I couldn't be less interested.

 

[anthony7777]

aeronca, consider calling h & l chevy in darien ct. (203) 202-3947, i bought four trucks from them and they always seem to well beat out all the other dealers ive checked, last one i got was a 2007 4x4 pick up work truck with a snow plow, i have no affiliation with them other then my buying from them, and dont tell them a guy named "anthony" sent you...onakinda they called me 4 weeks after i had the new truck and told me they forgot to charge me for all the plow stuff, as adults we sign contracts right?, ah yah i ran right down there and gave them the bucks, yah right...

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Tow rating doesn't answer the question: torque does.....let's see: [/QUOTE]
From pickuptruck.com and fueleconomy.gov's side by side comparison page:

<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">2009 6.0L V8 Conventional Silverado:</span></span> 375 ft-lbs. @ 4300 rpm, 367 hp @ 5500 rpm, tow rating 10,200 lbs (2WD), EPA 16 mpg (combined).
<span style="text-decoration: underline"><span style="font-weight: bold">2009 6.0L V8 Hybrid Silverado:</span></span> 367 ft-lbs. @ 4100 rpm, 332 hp @ 5100 rpm, tow rating 6100 lbs, EPA 21 mpg (combined).

More importantly, the torque curve of a hybrid-electric motor peaks at stall, so in low rpms a hybrid truck will actually have more torque available than a conventional truck.

Hybrids are pretty much it for cars in the future. The powertrain may vary (gas, diesel, hydrogen, waste oil, natural gas, God-knows-what, etc.), but within about 10 years just about everything will be taking advantage of the energy efficientcy and enhanced reliablility of a hybrid system.

 

[tony barnhill]

<span style="font-weight: bold">1998 360cid 5.9L V8 Gasoline Engine:

Horsepower 245 hp @4000 rpm
Torque 330 ft-lbs. @ 3250 rpm

1998 Dodge Quad Cab Sport Truck Tow Rating 9,100 lbs</span>

Don't believe that hybrid will do the work! Maybe as they continue to improve, they will.....

 

[DaveatMoon]

You left off the EPA mileage estimate for the Dodge, 14 mpg combined. Interestingly your horsepower and torque ratings are both lower than the hybrid, yet the tow rating is 3000 lbs. heavier. I don't have an answer as to why that's the case. :confuse:

Given the DOT's (<span style="font-style: italic">fueleconomy.gov</span>) rather conservative average use assumptions and today's (low) average fuel price, that's a difference of $871 on your gas bill every year between the Dodge and the Chevy hybrid. That's not to mention the 4.4 tons/yr. of CO2 kept out of the atmosphere, and the 8.2 barrels of oil (344 gallons) not imported each year, per truck. If you use your truck more/less/differently you can use their site to personalize your analysis.

It's simple facts like this that drove the C.A.F.E. standards higher in the first place. Hybrids are here to stay, and are going to be a fact of life from now on. My personal experience with them is that they're bulletproof and a net savings of money, and among every owner group I can find the response is the same. There used to be a time when Americans embraced progress, like when automatic transmissions were 3/4 of the market within 10 years of their introduction. I don't know what happened to change that for so many, but we need to fix it.

 

[GregW]

Interestingly your horsepower and torque ratings are both lower than the hybrid, yet the tow rating is 3000 lbs. heavier. I don't have an answer as to why that's the case. :confuse:

Probably something as simple as gearing in the rear axle.

 

[tony barnhill]

You left off the EPA mileage estimate for the Dodge, 14 mpg combined. Interestingly your horsepower and torque ratings are both lower than the hybrid, yet the tow rating is 3000 lbs. heavier. I don't have an answer as to why that's the case.

Dave - did you notice that the Dodge torque rating was measured at a much lower RPM than the hybrid? Hybrid was measured at 4100rpm, Dodge was at 3250rpm....wonder what the ratings are at the same RPM?

Given the DOT's (fueleconomy.gov) rather conservative average use assumptions and today's (low) average fuel price, that's a difference of $871 on your gas bill every year between the Dodge and the Chevy hybrid. That's not to mention the 4.4 tons/yr. of CO2 kept out of the atmosphere, and the 8.2 barrels of oil (344 gallons) not imported each year, per truck.

Remember what I said earlier.....when I want to tow with my big Dodge, I don't worry about or calculate gas mileage! I do what I want to! Nor do I worry too terribly much about my overall effect on the environment....man's been around "only a speck of time" when you consider the age of the earth....& the earth will be around when man is long gone! & $872 a year isn't gonna break me if its how I want to spend my $$'s!

<span style="text-decoration: line-through">Not being a smarta$$ or anything - I do quite a bit in my personal life to reduce my affect on mother earth; I've always tried to make everywhere I go a better place because I was there.....but, I'm not going to change my lifestyle just to do more when I'm not sure mankind really affects things that much (let's not go there, please).</span>....when the hybrid does the same thing as my Dodge, I'll think about getting one!

I am wondering though.....is it the petroleum products going into my Dodge or the petroleum products going on ladies' faces that cause us to import oil....maybe we should start telling the ladies to use non-petroleum-based cosmetics!!

 

[aerog]

There used to be a time when Americans embraced progress, like when automatic transmissions were 3/4 of the market within 10 years of their introduction.

I guess I'm part of the population that doesn't embrace progress. I avoid automatic transmissions and refuse to buy one.

Fortunately I still have that choice, and I value that freedom.

 

[Mickey Richaud]

Is it just my take, or are we venturing into waters in the Pub that we shouldn't...?

 

[DNK]

That's because you live in Florida
After living in the foot hills all my cars are autos

 

[aerog]

That's because you live in Florida
After living in the foot hills all my cars are autos

No Don, it isn't. I haven't been here that long. I'm originally from Virginia, and I spent most of my time in hill-country and lived in the mountains for quite awhile.

 

[tony barnhill]

Is it just my take, or are we venturing into waters in the Pub that we shouldn't...?

We're skirting it - but, so far we're okay (that's why I edited my post).

Plus, we're having fun!

Jerri & I were talking about trucks at dinner (over spaghetti & meatballs) & I suggested that we stop by a Ford dealer to see their big, new truck, a Toyota dealer to see theirs & a GMC dealer to see their hybrid....not buying, just a topic of discussion.

 

[aerog]

You do that Tony. I've got nothing to tow so I'm still thinking about a Mini :wink:

 

[tony barnhill]

I'm always towing something, Scott...just this week I towed my Corvette to the bodyshop & back 1 day while we removed the front clip....next day I towed it to breakfast on the way to the frame shop so they can yank on it....I'll probably pick it up tomorrow or Friday & take it back to the bodyshop to pull the body tub so they can sandblast the frame.

Heck, sometimes I just don't even remove my trailer & tow it around empty! Truck doesn't know its back there....

 

[aeronca65t]

By the way, since you guys were talking about torque before, the Dodge Sprinter 3.0 engine makes 280 ft. lbs of torque at <span style="text-decoration: underline">1200</span> RPM.

They only have about 150 HP (my van has 200), so they're probably slow off the line but that doesn't bother me one bit.
I'm a small-bore racer so I already know about driving a "momentum car".

The latest reviews list 25 mpg as "easy" with Sprinters.
And the new ones are being assembled in South Carolina.
Maybe in a couple of years....

 

[Keoke]

Hi I just read on CNN that the dealers are discounting and ignoring profit . 40% discounts are being made.--Keoke

 

[tony barnhill]

Hi I just read on CNN that the dealers are discounting and ignoring profit . 40% discounts are being made.--Keoke

Where? I've not found them yet!

 

[DaveatMoon]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Dave - did you notice that the Dodge torque rating was measured at a much lower RPM than the hybrid? Hybrid was measured at 4100rpm, Dodge was at 3250rpm....wonder what the ratings are at the same RPM? [/QUOTE]
Torque is always quoted for the peak of any particular drivetrain. A drivetrain could be "peaky" or have a very flat torque curve. It would take some serious digging to find this out for a specific vehicle (especially a newly introduced one that isn't marketed for it's performance characteristics). It's also interesting that the hybrid engine peaks at a higher rpm than the Dodge. Logically it should be the other way around.

I found out why the tow rating on hybrids is lower. GM deliberately underrates it (for good reason). From pickuptrucks.com's May 21 review of the GMC hybrid:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]The hybrid can’t tow as much because, given its current cooling capacity, the extra weight would overheat the electronics of its electric drive system, GM says. Gary White, GM North America vice president and vehicle line executive for GM full-size trucks, said he thinks GM’s next-generation hybrid pickups will be able to tow up to 50 percent more than today’s trucks.[/QUOTE]

It would be interesting to know if the GMC dealers has hybrids on the lot. I've got a 4 cylinder Ford Ranger that I'll have to replace someday, and it gets almost the same mileage as is reported for these trucks. If they're on the lot I may take a look myself. :cooler:

 

[DaveatMoon]

Hi I just read on CNN that the dealers are discounting and ignoring profit . 40% discounts are being made.--Keoke

Where? I've not found them yet!

Leesburg, VA. Here's a link to the story.