Good Deal on New Vehicles?

[aeronca65t]

I have a 2005 Ford van that runs pefect. Does a great job towing #909 and gets good mileage to boot.
So I don't really need to replace it, but I am tempted by all the "deals" I hear about due to the poor economy.

But after looking, I haven't seen any of these so-called deals.

A few weeks ago I figured I'd look at a new Chevy Express 1500 cargo van. They have a list price for the basic V-6 model of about $23,500 and there are zillions of them at the dealers in my area.

So I go to three local dealers and the best I can do is $1000 off. And I am sure at least two of these dealers will be closing soon. I don't get it?

In '05 I got $6000 off my Ford van because it was late in the year and they were doing a model changeover.

I'd consider a good deal on a 2008 left-over Chevy van as long as is was brand new but no luck with that.
I can get a new Ford F-150 pickup for about $18,000 but I have no interest in pickups. The Ford vans are all V8s (which I don't want) and I don't see any deals on them either.

The Dodge Sprinters are cool but the best price I've seen on them is over $30,000 so forget that.

Anyone spot any good deals on new Chevy Express cargo vans? I sure ain't seeing them.

 

[aerog]

The last couple of vehicles I bought were pretty much internet sales. I got on the 'net, shopped around, and got my "best" prices from the dealers online. My search-area was up to a 2-3 hour radius from home (although I would have gone more if I hadn't found exactly what I'd wanted).

You may not find anything better but it's a pretty easy way to shop around

 

[Mickey Richaud]

So I go to three local dealers and the best I can do is $1000 off. And I am sure at least two of these dealers will be closing soon. I don't get it?

That they may be closing soon may well BE the reason! Trying to put as much money in the bank as they can!

 

[vagt6]

Franchised dealers don't normally discount below what they paid the factory for the vehicle, unless they're nuts or want to lose money. I wouldn't expect too many huge deals on new cars, however, there's some mighty attractive financing available nowadays.

Instead of buying new, purchase a nice, slightly used one. Let someone else pay the first year depreciation, and you get a practically new car!

Can't lose by buying "slightly" used, IMHO.

 

[tony barnhill]

So I go to three local dealers and the best I can do is $1000 off. And I am sure at least two of these dealers will be closing soon. I don't get it?

That they may be closing soon may well BE the reason! Trying to put as much money in the bank as they can!

I stopped by a couple of Dodge dealers here in Alabama recently that are being closed - no good deals on their lots! I figured I'd look at what I could get a new truck for...best deal was one dealer was giving an extra $1000 off the 'discounted' prices if you were a Dodge truck owner (trading your truck in for a new one)...business as usual so far as I could tell!

 

[DaveatMoon]

I would give serious consideration to renting tow vehicles in the near future. As soon as the economy recovers, or as soon as commodity traders decide it's going to recover, we're going to be right back @ $4.00/gal. & it will go up from there. Gas has gone up almost a $1 here in the last 2 months (to $2.75), and I've already seen signs in California this week of $3.42/gal.

If you don't need to drive a gas hog everyday it'd be a good idea to only rent one when they're needed, Ryder, Uhaul, etc. can answer a lot of people's needs without having to buy your own truck.

Having said that, if you use a truck for heavy work (like towing or professionally) enough that renting is impractical then this is an ideal time to buy a new tow vehicle not withstanding any "deals" the current Big 3 money issues entail. Last month the new C.A.F.E. standards were released for the coming 6 years, and buying one of the old torque monsters needed for towing is about to become VERY expensive because of them. The new C.A.F.E. "truck" standard of 30 mpg by 2016 (<span style="font-style: italic">in 2009 it was 23.1 mpg, last year it was 22.5</span>) will result in a lot of familiar truck engines becomming very rare and very expensive.

BTW, this was only a 3 year acceleration of the standard that was already in place as of 2007 for the year 2019. A lot of hay was made over this in the news, but it really wasn't that big a deal.

Fuel will be getting ever more expensive in the coming years, so the costs of driving a full-size truck will get pretty rough. However if you need one it may be very hard to find one with a good GVW or tow rating in very short order.

 

[tony barnhill]

Oh, I want to have the biggest energy footprint I can find, darn the cost...hehehehe

 

[DaveatMoon]

Oh, I want to have the biggest energy footprint I can find, darn the cost...hehehehe

You'd be surprised how many people seriously do as well, and how much their behavior effects the supply/demand equation and therefore fuel prices.

 

[aerog]

I don't know what that has to do with Twinkies, but... ok.

Nial, I recommend you get what you need/want and enjoy it

 

[aeronca65t]

I don't know what that has to do with Twinkies, but... ok.

Nial, I recommend you get what you need/want and enjoy it

LOL. I thing the local dealers are making that decision *for* me.

That's the interesting part ot all this. I'm not desperate and am fine the way I am.
The Freestar (despite dire warnings from "internet experts") has been great. It's max tow rate of 3500# has been fine for my 2800# trailer with car and I just got almost 18 mpg towing back from the New Hampshire Vintage. With the light, open 4-wheel Econotrailer with 4-wheel electric brakes, it's been one of the nicest, smoothest tow rigs I've ever had. Linda falls asleep in it all the time...she'd never do that in our old Chevy.

My main reason to look at vans now was because I thought I'd see a good deal on something brand new. The Ford has 65,000 miles on it now and could use tires, all fluids changed and few other things. I *hate* dealing with tow vehicle issues so a new van takes care of that for another 5 years or so. If I'm working on a car, I want it to be on my "fun" cars. Plus the Chevy is a bit bigger so I could squeeze in more tools and spares. The 4.3 V-6 in the Chevy will deliver 15 mpg which is not great but OK.

I have no interest in buying a well-cared for, used vehicle.....I already have one.

Renting wouldn't work for me. Assuming a cost of $22,000 and vehicle that lasts 6 years that's $3666 per year. I attend at least ten weekend events a year (many are three-day events) . That would require me to rent at least 34 days per year. Plus other uses such as dragging all our stuff to The Shore for a week, Home Depot "runs", bringing parts to the machine shop, etc. Renting would end up costing more and be far less convienent.

I know what you guys are saying, but to me, it still doesn't make sense that my local dealers are sitting on mulitudes of these things but still aren't ready to deal. I have cash and I told the saleguys I'm ready to buy "right now" for the right price (I think $20,000 would be a good price).
All of them say their "invoice" (dealer cost) for these vans is $22,500. Those numbers are pure BS and I think everyone and his uncle knows that. The reality is that when all is said and done they pay about $2000 to $3000 less than "invoice" on most new cars.
My guess is they are thinking there'll be some big dealer buy-back arrangement after the Chapter 11 filing. Wishful thinking in my view.

If I keep the Ford a few more years, then I could probably afford a Dodge/Mercedes Sprinter or whatever comes down the pike as newer, more efficient large vehicles become available (in my view, the Sprinter is probably the first of many). Despite Tony's desire to have a big energy footprint, I think most of us would prefer to minimise fuel costs. The Sprinter has been a huge success with Fed-Ex and local tradesmen in my area. And it'll tow 5000#. A friend of mine gets 21 mpg when towing with his Sprinter and more than that when he's not.

I'll keep looking a little longer, but I'll also be putting new tires on the Ford soon. Once that happens, I'm keeping it for at least a couple of more years. No big deal....it runs great, is paid for and isn't really worth much anyway.

 

[vagt6]

I don't know what that has to do with Twinkies, but... ok.

Nial, I recommend you get what you need/want and enjoy it

I know what you guys are saying, but to me, it still doesn't make sense that my local dealers are sitting on mulitudes of these things but still aren't ready to deal. I have cash and I told the saleguys I'm ready to buy "right now" for the right price (I think $20,000 would be a good price).
All of them say their "invoice" (dealer cost) for these vans is $22,500. Those numbers are pure BS and I think everyone and his uncle knows that. The reality is that when all is said and done they pay about $2000 to $3000 less than "invoice" on most new cars.
My guess is they are thinking there'll be some big dealer buy-back arrangement after the Chapter 11 filing. Wishful thinking in my view.

Nial, franchised dealers pay the manufacturers IN FULL for cars when the car is received by the dealer. The cars on your dealer's lot are paid for and are the sole property of the dealer (and his bank or lender). And, the "invoice" cost is not "BS", it's what the dealer paid the manufacturer for the car, or darn near it.

Dealers and all other retailers cannot sell their wares for less than they paid for them and expect to remain in business: it's Economics 101!

And, I'm not sure where you got your info that dealers pay "about $2 to $3K less . . .", perhaps it's a myth.

Dealers <span style="text-decoration: underline">must</span> sell the cars at a price that's slightly above what they paid (e.g., "profit"). The dealer has no choice, unless, of course, he's nuts.

I don't think now is a great time to beat up on dealers. They've got enough to worry about as it is. And in fact, most dealers are very good businesspeople who will bend over backward to assist a customer.

Let's go easy on the dealers, they're NOT the ones who got us into this current mess.

 

[70herald]

Nial, franchised dealers pay the manufacturers IN FULL for cars when the car is received by the dealer. The cars on your dealer's lot are paid for and are the sole property of the dealer (and his bank or lender). And, the "invoice" cost is not "BS", it's what the dealer paid the manufacturer for the car, or darn near it.

Dealers and all other retailers cannot sell their wares for less than they paid for them and expect to remain in business: it's Economics 101!

And, I'm not sure where you got your info that dealers pay "about $2 to $3K less . . .", perhaps it's a myth.

Yes and no,
The dealer does pay the full amount, but later a portion of the cost is rebated to the dealer.
In the case of chevy 3% of MSRP according to edmunds.

https://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

 

[aeronca65t]

The dealer does pay the full amount, but later a portion of the cost is rebated to the dealer.
In the case of chevy 3% of MSRP according to edmunds.

https://www.edmunds.com/advice/incentives/holdback/index.html

That was my point.
All the dealers I know are involved in some sort of "program" that refunds them some amount depending on number of sales and other factors (ie-if the dealer takes slow-selling models and tries to move them, etc).
The dealers love to tell the public that the invoice is what they pay, but in reality, it isn't.
And I'm not really mad at the dealers.....just surprised.
If I was carrying all inventory they have I'd be happy to move some of them at cost.
I can get some foreign vehicle at better prices, but I figured I'd help buy off extra inventory from a US car company. Guess not.

 

[aerog]

Never can tell about 'em. I was looking at a van once. Sat down and asked for their "best price", and supposedly got it. When I questioned it the "manager" proceeded to lecture me at great length about how holdbacks work, what the invoice was, and even pulled the "aren't we allowed to make a profit" line. After 45 minutes I started laughing and asked why his "best price" was several thousand more than what was posted on the vehicle...which was actually the price they'd have sold it to me for (in other words it wasn't a mistake). Kind of made me really think about all the nonsense numbers he was throwing at me :wink:

 

[tony barnhill]

Nial - I'm like you...I enjoy my big Dodge truck with its 5.9L V8 & towing package....I thought I'd see if Dodge dealers who were closing (& to whom Dodge has already said they're not doing any buybacks) would get down near their real costs to not continue carrying the interest on their floorplan...however, were I really looking for another big truck, I'd look at Ford first because they're hanging in on their own & then to foreign trucks to see how they compare pricewise.

& I'm not going to cut back on what I want to drive because of fuel costs...if I want a behometh, I'll buy one & suffer the consequences to be able to do what I need/want to do,.

Dave, I've had my Corvette behind my truck on a trailer more in the past 2 weeks than I dare consider - renting a tow vehicle is for me also not a consideration....heck, my trailer even has its own electric winch & electrical system so I can load & unload easily....& there are usually other cars on the trailer quite frequently.

Never thought of a van though.....hmmmm

 

[aeronca65t]

Tony:

The Dodge Sprinter van is really nice but sort of pricey (and I'd prefer to own at least one "American" vehicle....which the Sprinter isn't)

 

[pjsmetana]

Suzuki has a nice truck coming out soon, and GM is releasing a full sized hybrid truck soon as well.

 

[tony barnhill]

Suzuki has a nice truck coming out soon, and GM is releasing a full sized hybrid truck soon as well.

But will it have the torque of my 5.9L V8 Dodge?

 

[DaveatMoon]

Suzuki has a nice truck coming out soon, and GM is releasing a full sized hybrid truck soon as well.

The new Suzuki Equator truck is a badge-engineered mid-size Nissan Frontier. It was released in December. So far I've seen exactly 2.

The full-size hybrid GM trucks were released in 2007 (as 2008 models). They have a 6100 lb. tow rating, but the hybrid powertrain is effectively a $3300 option (<span style="font-style: italic">although it's sure to decline soon</span>). They haven't been very popular, and the Tahoe/Yukon version has already been cancelled.

Not being able to sell hybrids in a $4/gal. world? No wonder GM is in trouble.

 

[swift6]

The most notable thing about the GM full size hybrid was that it could power tools at a job site just like a generator would. I think its mileage improvement was only 1 mpg and it was easily accounted for in areas other than the hybrid drivetrain.