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Giving up restoration of '74 Midget

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Now, I've gotta agree with you about prices if you're not going to do the work yourself & are going to pay a quality craftsman to assemble it for you....

But, who still pays full catalog prices for parts?
 
C16187,
I hate posts like this...I have never replied to one before...mosts of my posts generally offer kind words, helpful comments, and encouragement. BUT, for some reason your post, and repeated followups touched a nerve. (might want to move on to another thread...now)

So you've decided to sell your failed Midget project, fine, there's a place here to do just that and I see you are going to use it. No, wait...I see now that you are offering parts on Ebay. It would appear that there continues to be no plan...even in disposing of it.

But it's easy to see why you are in a hurry, what with another project already waiting. And all those new parts to...collect. And they are certainly bargains, like the Midget appeared to be 7 years ago...no, wait...maybe it didn't appear that way, since no apparent research or planning was done before beginning the Midget project.

Now, to justify the mistake and subsequent mistakes it seems logical to take the most extreme facts and figures about parts and rebuilds and what have you and...confuse them. Let's see, we'll take the cheapest parts prices, figure in your own labor, and come up with a price for a rebuilt engine for the NEW project...then compare that to a turn-key rebuild from one of the best "A" series builders in the country, Hap (Hal). Seem fair? Not to me...but I don't think you're trying to convince me.

Enough of this! Dump the Midget, collect your new parts, and who knows...maybe they will come together before you lose your "enthusiasm and motivation" to finish (my projects always seem to involve a healthy dose of hard work). If so, you can proudly drive your Mustang to the next local cruise and park it right there by the other 8-10. If not, in another 7 years or so...or when the next project magically appears...you can sell the Mustang project and parts...or part it out on Ebay.

Have a nice day,

Ray
 
Just the old Apples and Oranges Ray. Well said.
 
Gee thanks for the rabid attack. For your information I have not put the car up on Ebay as I type this.

Second, as of 14 days ago I had no intention of selling my Midget. I had every intention on finishing the project. What happened was that I was visiting with a 90 year old World War II veteran--he was the brother of my father's best friend who was killed in combat in Italy in August 1944. I was there to scan some photos of his dead brother as part of a research effort I'm doing on my dad's combat outfit. Whether you believe this or not I could care less.

He happened to mention that he had an "old car" in his garage that he wanted to junk or donate to charity. He had gotten this car years ago and had started restoring it but he would never be able to finish it. I asked what kind of car was it--he said a 1968 Ford Mustang. He didn't even want to show it to me because it was COVERED with boxes and stuff and he didn't think that I would have any interest in the car.

Well, it turned out to be a great car and even then, I did not think that I would change courses and dump the MG for the Mustang. After researching the costs and other considerations for a week, I decided to take the Mustang. One of the decisive factors was that my friend would sell the car for a "token" price.

I decided that I would probably never get an opportunity like this again so that's the reason.

On the issue of engine builders, I wanted to rebuild my engine to a relatively high level of quality since I intended to run the car at time trials at tracks like Willow Springs and Buttonwillow. I've been doing this for years with my Acura with a local sports car club. Willow Springs is a very fast track and I needed an engine that could survive this kind of driving.

If you go to the Seven Enterprises website and ad up the machining costs for their services you'll see that to do everything desirable to a 1275, the costs will run you more than $1000.

https://www.7ent.com/page.cfm?pageid=48

Then add the cost of a Weber DCOE (well over $800), or the HIF6 kit from Seven Enterprises ($550), Maniflow headers from APT ($279), then you start to run up quite a tab.

Now I realize that you can get your 1275 rebuilt a lot cheaper at Joe's Block Welding but I don't want a low buck rebuild.

The prices I was quoting for the Ford 302 parts were straight from Summit Racing and Jegs--check them out. They are NOT the "cheapest" parts or prices. The price of the fully blueprinted block was for a DSS Racing product:

https://www.dssracing.com/cncblocks.htm

They're selling these at their Ebay store for $625 and it's another $135 to ship it to California. This is NOT the cheapest block you can buy. If you want CHEAP, you can buy a complete 302 rebuild longblock for well under $2000. I was not quoting that kind of junk prices.

I'm not comparing cheap generic Ford parts to the most expensive high-end 1275 parts. I'm comparing things at the similar quality and convenience levels.

I did not begin the project with no planning or cost and time estimates. But the cost of completing my MG compared to a '69 Mustang, it was a no brainer.

And then there's the finished product. I'd have a nice 80 HP Midget or a 325 HP Mustang with all the bells and whistles than I would most certainly be able to lab Willow Springs at a faster pace. I was hoping that I could build a Midget that would lap Willow in the low 1:50s. I currently can go 1:48 all day with my daily driver Acura with street tires.

After talking to Tom Colby at Speedwell, it seems that it's not going to be easy to unload my project quickly. I put a lot of time and effort into my MG project. Whenever possible, I used aircraft fasteners for everything--I bought them from Aircraft Spruce. I put a lot of effort and care into everything.

If this opportunity of 1968 notchback Mustang did not arise, I wouldn't be here at all. I would be ordering a MIG welder to finish up the small body repairs. I came here just to see if I could find someone who would like to get a nice relatively rust free, clean and well equipped (from a suspension standpoit) '74 Midget.

I only went into details about my saga because that's what message boards are for. The issues I'm confronting are common ones. Maybe someone else who's thinking about starting a Spridget project might get some useful information from my experience. I'm sorry if my posts bugged you.

Tell you what I'm going to do. I'll make life easier for everyone. My car is not for sale. I'm going to part it out on Ebay.

Have a nice day.
 
Dude

Just a few things:

1. Good luck with the Mustang, I hope it is a fast back :wink:

2. Parts are alot cheaper for them, and I honestly cannot see why Barret has such outrageous prices.

3. Keep matching numbers for it as best as you can.

4. I apologize for my first post, but it seemed like maybe you hadn't weighed out your options and were just a little clammy.

5. We are a bunch of "old" guys :wink: who hate to see cars parted out.

All the best on your future endeaovor :savewave:

Hope I see you in a turn and can wink at ya :smile:

Pat
 
It is just so sad to see one parted.
 
Pat:
Thanks, no apology needed, but I accept and appreciate the kind words.

I also hate to part cars out--it's sacrilege to me since there aren't very many good old classic cars left. I was making plans to buy the necesary parts to put the chassis on wheels since I was going to sell off the suspension parts and alloy rims.

I just put in a bid on eBay for front spindles last night but lost that one. I was going to buy some cheap tires and mount them on some steel Midget wheels that I bought and sandblasted (this was before I decided to switch to alloys). So I was going to spend money just so that the tub could be wheeled off.

I'm not going to worry about all of these details now since what's the use? It will be easier to take a Sawzall and cut it up into pieces and throw it into my pickup for scrap. I can sell the Rostyles and save money--I was going to give the tub away.

Being a nice and honest fellow never seems to get you anywhere on the internet.

Good luck with your car and if you see a '68 white notchback Mustang, wave--I'll do the same!
 
Actually, if the car is solid you can sell the tub easily. It is hard to sell it as a unit because people do not have the exact same vision for what they want in the car. Selling the individual parts will net you the most money. But do not cut up the tub. It will bring good money. List it on craigs list since it is not a easily shipped item.
 
Trevor Jessie said:
... Selling the individual parts will net you the most money. ...
Click to expand...

Been here. Pareted out my unfinished 63 corvair 4dr for almost 10 g years ago. Of course I had some other odds and ends form other parts car. But wasnt worth $800 to anyone!
 
Why not list your inventory, advise on a price, and see if someone won't take the whole shooting match off you hands as is?

Last year I finished a 74 that required floors, sills, footwells, lower quarters, door skins, full interior, rear valence, tranny rebuild and paint and it all happened for 4500 plus allot of labour.

I'm interested in what you'd sell it all for as is. I'd think you should count on 1000 for the 'original' stuff plus the 75 % of retail cost of new stuff you've bought. Not to build a racer but just to get a nice original spec midge back on the road.

Call me crazy....?
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:] Actually, if the car is solid you can sell the tub easily. It is hard to sell it as a unit because people do not have the exact same vision for what they want in the car. Selling the individual parts will net you the most money. But do not cut up the tub. It will bring good money. List it on craigs list since it is not a easily shipped item.
[/QUOTE]


Your idea is the best advice--I've started to disassemble the front end tonight. I only have to strip the car; I'm in no hurry to sell the parts since I don't need the funds immediately. When I get it stripped then I'll advertise the tub on craig's list.

I can take my time selling the parts.

Thanks
 
Coool!
A 68 Mustang

I used to have one of those about 16 years ago, a fastback with a 289 and 3-speed. It was pretty much original so it wasn't worth very much. All I could say for it was that there wasn't really any rust on it.

I found a 351 Cleveland engine with a FMX trans from a Torino and I tried to get it in the car, but I couldn't get it to fit. The engine was too wide. So I used a bfh to make more room, but still couldn't get it in the engine compartment.

I had given away the original engine, so I found a 302 with a C4, but I was missing a bunch of stuff. It cost a lot to get all the small pieces again and when I tried to start it, it just backfired through the carb. I couldn't get it to run no matter how much start fluid I used.

It sat in my driveway for about 4 years and I hadn't driven it since I took the engine out the first time, and I just lost interest. The neighbors were starting to mention it since it sat with flat tires for a while. That was before ebay so I put some adverts up at the local supermarket. Nobody called me about it so I just sent it to the crusher. If it were now, I might have put an advert up on ebay.
 
OK, the story isn't true.
But this is unfortunately all too typical, as Ray mentioned.
High hopes, lack of planning, lack of vision, unrealistic expectations, lack of stamina. Some people get the best intentions (dreams) of making a killer street machine, and just as quickly loose interest when another dream comes along.

Cars don't repair themselves. They don't improve themselves. The owner has to do that. If you don't have the stamina to finish something you start, don't start it!

Ownership of a car gives you the legal right to destroy the car, but it doesn't give you the moral right. If you aren't going to finish a project, you could at least sell it in pretty much the same condition as when you got it, instead of destroying it so no-one else can have it.

When you cite that the cars have rust, you are only making an excuse to abandon the project. This is not a realistic factor.

If you really would prefer a Mustang, then you should have started with a Mustang, just like about a half a million other people. If you want an MG like a few thousand other people, then get an MG, but do the project! Why destroy a car so others can't have it?
 
Please don't anyhting I say wrong in the this post, it's not meant to be. I think of myself as a realist, and not much of a daydreamer, and often times in this hobby I give what I call hard love advice. A restoration or a race car build is a buttload of work, I'm not telling anyone here that has done this anything they don't already know.
I have people come to me all the time telling me they are going to restore a car or build a race car, that's when I start my hard love routine, it goes a little like this.

Do you have a good place to work on the car and do this job?

It this place heated, so you can work in the winter?

Do you have all the tools needed to do the job, and are you prepared to buy them if you don't?

How much of this project can you do yourself and how much do you need to contract out with professionals?

Have you made a realstic budget for your project, if this is your first job like this, then double it!

Do you have the free time to do this project, if you have young children with all the time consuming things that come with kids, can you budget the time needed to do this project?

If you have a choice to piddle out in the garage on your project, or watch sports on TV, which would you truely rather do? If you answer watch sports, then get rid of the project.

Are you taking on this project because you really want to experience the feeling of acomplishment from completing a project like this or are you doing it this way because you don't feel you an afford a decent example of this car, and you doing this to save a buck? If the answer is to save a buck, you're already doomed, restoring a car will almost always cost more than buying a restored example, and if you are only doing this because you want a example of this car, and working on the project is drudgery and not pure enjoyment, get rid of it, you'll never finish it.

And finally, do you realize out of all restoration projects started only about 1 out of 10 see completion, be honest with yourself, are you that I out of 10?

I probably talk more people out of doing projects than encouraging them to start one, but you know what, anything I just said to that 1 out of 10 guy didn't even faze him, he's on a mission, and for him this project is something he welcomes, to this guy lying on his back on cement floor with a crepper is way more fun than watching the baseball game or race on TV, he wouldn't rather be nowhere else on this earth, he is in his element. To the guy fooling himself, I just saved him alot of time, money and heartache.

Ever notice the 1 or 10 guy here or anywhere in this hobby, alot of the time this project might very well be their first big car project, and in the begining even though they welcomed the project, their real goal was to get it finished and enjoy driving or showing the car, but when it's all done they find out that simply just owning, driving and showing the finished project is not what they have become to enjoy about this hobby, it was the project to begin with. The next thing you know these guys go find a new project, because in the end it was the project they fell in love with not the finished car. These guys are truely the greats of our hobby.

Here, here I tip my glass to the 1 of 10 guys in this hobby, you are what this hobby is all about, you know who you are, pat yourselves on the back, job well done!!!!!!!

Just to let you all know where I fall into this group, I half and half, I absolutely love to build a race car, but not so much a street restoration , too refrained my my creative style, so my 1967 MGB GT perfectly street restored street car I traded a buddy a race car I built for it. When it come right down to it, I wanted a street car to drive not restore, and would rather have built myslef a new race car than done a street resortation. We have to be true to oursleves to last in this hobby.
 
Well said Hap.

I need to let my wife read that. She couldn't understand why I drug in a rusty old car when I only had my Midget "finished" for a few years.

and... if you get bored with race cars you can always build a street rod. There is plenty of room for creativity there.
 
Hap is a professional LBC technician and racer who also happens to really love these cars. And, I think he's one of the lucky ones who practices our LBC hobby every day! His advice, above, is very, very good and worth retaining.

And,Hap, no need to apologize for being a realist: the world would be in a lot less trouble if realists were running things!

To all who are thinking about restoring an LBC, please <span style="text-decoration: underline">copy and post</span> Hap's message, above, in your workshop (or maybe on your checkbook) somewhere very visible. <span style="font-style: italic">He hit it right on the head</span>.

Some folks (I've been one, too) who simply cannot afford to take on restoration projects do so anyway. First and foremost, you must consider the economics of what you intend to do with the car. For most LBCs, the bare minimum to restore an LBC is $5,000 or more, even if you do all the work. For many, it's well over $10,000 when all is said and done.

If you can't handle the expense, or don't have the time or skill, don't do it. And, remember that the money you pour into this car affects your family, too.

Hap's is perfect reasoning.

Thanks for the clarity, Hap.
 
Very well said indeed. Good advise as always Hap.
 
Let's put that one in the Wikki!

Though, in truth, I would have still taken on my project had I read that before hand. I am probably not a 1 percenter, but I am too hard headed to quit.
 
i patted myself on the back, but im not sure i deserved it!
some days the car can b a real pain....
i enjoy working on it ,but i see all the imperfections
and just dont have the money to make it all better....
i WILL have a newly painted and running vehicle in
the next couple months...that should change my attitude
about things.. :wink: ..........z
 
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