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Gas thoughts

aerog said:
Oil. Fuel. Who cares. Isn't <span style="font-style: italic">anyone</span> upset with the price of gold? <span style="font-style: italic">ANYONE</span>!? Have you tried buying your girlfriend/wife jewelry lately? It's nuts.

Anyway, GAS-X is the solution to everything.
Buy gold for the wife?? NOOOOOO.....I buy gold for gold! Though the gold jewelry I bought both her & my daughter while I was in Saudi Arabia during Desert Storm has appreciated so much I've thought of selling it! Heck, my Army rank in Saudi emblems is 22-carat gold mounted on a leather strap that I wore fitted around a button - that sucker weighs a bunch & I'll never do anything with it except let it sit in the safe.
 
tony barnhill said:
Mick - did you link up with Jason while he was in-country?

Nope - couldn't get away.

We'll have to get some more info long-distance...
 
I read a couple of days ago on the front page of the Wall Street Journal the Air Force is experminting with synthetic jet fuel made from coal. The military, it seems, has decided it's not a good thing to be dependant on foreign oil (now theres a novel idea :crazyeyes:) ANYWAY, South Africa has been using it for years and the Air Force would like to try it also. It seems the biggest obstacles are polution, which can be fixed, and investment in convertion plants. The article says synthetic fuel COULD be made much cheaper than crude based fuel IF investments in gassification plants were made. Might not be the Holy Grail, but a start.
grin.gif
 
A must see is "The End of Suburbia" a documentary on peak oil. The gist of this film:
1. As a society we must change many wasteful habits.
2. Our children and grandchildren will most likely be living in cities.
3. What now is considered suburbia will ultimately become a deserted wasteland.

Also some interesting insight into the our government's pre-occupation with the ME. And, the fact that we will be compeating with Russia and China and perhaps other nuclear powers for the remaining oil.
 
"(as an exporter we are ranked #15)"

That's another thing I don't quite understand. Why don't we direct ALL domestic production to meet our own needs and off-set our dependence on ME oil? Must be about money. :smirk:
 
angelfj said:
A must see is "The End of Suburbia" a documentary on peak oil. The gist of this film:
1. As a society we must change many wasteful habits.
2. Our children and grandchildren will most likely be living in cities.
3. What now is considered suburbia will ultimately become a deserted wasteland.

Also some interesting insight into the our government's pre-occupation with the ME. And, the fact that we will be compeating with Russia and China and perhaps other nuclear powers for the remaining oil.

I've seen some of it. It is difficult for me to respond without getting political (but I'll try) because I believe that such documentaries come from a very specific ideological (and political) point of view. Let's please not get into politics in this thread...mmmmk?

These types of movies play on peoples' worst fears and, as such, are great propaganda tools in my considered opinion. Let me just say that I don't buy into the doom-and-gloom, sky-is-falling premise of these types of movies. I'm more of an optimist and I have more faith in the ingenuity of people to solve our long-term energy problems.

Sure, we may run out of oil some day, but we are nowhere near that point yet and in the meantime research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious. So, someday in the distant future we may gradually transition to alternative fuels, but in the meantime the world runs on oil. We are the only country that I'm aware of that places ridiculous, and in my opinion self-destructive, restrictions on the tapping of our own available resources. Funny you should mention Russia - Putin has reduced the tax burden on oil companies to spur exploration. In the meantime, the US does everything possible to limit exploration or access to known sources for reasons that I completely disagree with and feel are based on faulty reasoning. And speaking of our own resources, there are vast quantities locked away in places like North Dakota that are now feasible to tap due to newer technology. These fields were always there, put they were not always feasible to access due to the cost and ROI at the time. In my humble opinion, we should provide serious incentives for tapping these areas, just as Putin has done in Russia.

Research should continue into alternatives, but in the meantime, if we were to announce tomorrow that we are going to drill in ANWR, off our coasts, and tap the vast reserves where it is currently prohibited - and do so in an environmentally conscientious manner, you would see the price of crude drop overnight as the speculators sell to cut their losses. And speaking of oil prices, they fell by over $4/barrel yesterday and fell again overnight on the New York Mercantile Exchange. If we did some of what I propose above, we would see further drops. The current prices are artificially high and the bubble will burst sooner or later. It's the Free Market and it works.


Basil
 
angelfj said:
"(as an exporter we are ranked #15)"

That's another thing I don't quite understand. Why don't we direct ALL domestic production to meet our own needs and off-set our dependence on ME oil? <span style="font-weight: bold">Must be about money.</span> :smirk:

So what? I have no issue with the profit motive - it is the engine that drives our economy. And by the way, we import more oil from Canada than from Saudi.
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]Gas prices are likely to keep rising as long as crude prices don't collapse, analysts said. And that means prices will soon breach the psychologically important $4 level on a national basis.[/QUOTE]

Several years ago I thought I would never see $3 a gallon and my kids would never see $4 a gallon. Boy was I wrong!!!
 
I agree with what Basil said, most folks with common sense can see what needs to be done to increase production and lower price.

I tried to make the point earlier that we can't influence the market individually, and this confluence of bad decisions, political decisions, propaganda, etc., still leave us with expensive gas.

We can, and should (I think) reduce consumption, through technology and better efficiency. We could increase non-oil related production of electricity, for example.

Even if the oil is in the ground, if there's no profit incentive to get it out, political impediments to drilling, a lack of technology, or production to get to tar sands, or shale, etc...we're still going to be paying a considerable premium at the pump. (Especially with increased world demand.) That premium is what's <span style="font-weight: bold">going to slow things down</span>, because virtually everything we consume is influenced by oil. The resultant recession is something we're not going to avoid.

(BTW, economics doesn't count as politics, does it?)
 
angelfj said:
"(as an exporter we are ranked #15)"

That's another thing I don't quite understand. Why don't we direct ALL domestic production to meet our own needs and off-set our dependence on ME oil? Must be about money. :smirk:


EPA regs will not allow us to use most of our domestic production oil due to the fact that the sulfur level is too high.
 
I love th' smell of sulphur in th' morning... :devilgrin:
 
Saw $4.76 for premium gas today. Haven't seen diesel under $5 for a few weeks at least. Oh, 100 octane fuel down the street was $7.90 a gal.
 
Basil said:
angelfj said:
A must see is "The End of Suburbia" a documentary on peak oil. The gist of this film:
1. As a society we must change many wasteful habits.
2. Our children and grandchildren will most likely be living in cities.
3. What now is considered suburbia will ultimately become a deserted wasteland.

Also some interesting insight into the our government's pre-occupation with the ME. And, the fact that we will be compeating with Russia and China and perhaps other nuclear powers for the remaining oil.

I've seen some of it. It is difficult for me to respond without getting political (but I'll try) because I believe that such documentaries come from a very specific ideological (and political) point of view. Let's please not get into politics in this thread...mmmmk?

These types of movies play on peoples' worst fears and, as such, are great propaganda tools in my considered opinion. Let me just say that I don't buy into the doom-and-gloom, sky-is-falling premise of these types of movies. I'm more of an optimist and I have more faith in the ingenuity of people to solve our long-term energy problems.

Sure, we may run out of oil some day, but we are nowhere near that point yet and in the meantime research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious. So, someday in the distant future we may gradually transition to alternative fuels, but in the meantime the world runs on oil. We are the only country that I'm aware of that places ridiculous, and in my opinion self-destructive, restrictions on the tapping of our own available resources. Funny you should mention Russia - Putin has reduced the tax burden on oil companies to spur exploration. In the meantime, the US does everything possible to limit exploration or access to known sources for reasons that I completely disagree with and feel are based on faulty reasoning. And speaking of our own resources, there are vast quantities locked away in places like North Dakota that are now feasible to tap due to newer technology. These fields were always there, put they were not always feasible to access due to the cost and ROI at the time. In my humble opinion, we should provide serious incentives for tapping these areas, just as Putin has done in Russia.

Research should continue into alternatives, but in the meantime, if we were to announce tomorrow that we are going to drill in ANWR, off our coasts, and tap the vast reserves where it is currently prohibited - and do so in an environmentally conscientious manner, you would see the price of crude drop overnight as the speculators sell to cut their losses. And speaking of oil prices, they fell by over $4/barrel yesterday and fell again overnight on the New York Mercantile Exchange. If we did some of what I propose above, we would see further drops. The current prices are artificially high and the bubble will burst sooner or later. It's the Free Market and it works.


Basil

Well said Basil! My opinion is that Environmentalists are as much responsible for the oil crisis as anyone, If not moreso.
As for the TEN year statement of a previous post you made .... make that THIRTY FOUR YEARS {1974} is when the "Wake up call" was issued. If we { the Govt. } Had initiated oil indepnedence back then we would not be in this fix today.
 
"Sure, we <span style="text-decoration: line-through">may</span> will run out of oil some day, but we are nowhere near that point yet and in the meantime research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious."

minor edit - only so much dinosaur blood in the earth.

I agree that the film was pessimistic, but the intention of the prodicers was to send a wake up call to those that watched.


"research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious"
- we have the technology now to build small ( > 100MW) breeder-reactor nukes for an applied ditributed energy scheme.
- cellulosic based bio-fuels that do not compete with the food chain are under development now.
- wind and solar are coming along
However, we must also reduce our usage and waste at the same time, IMHO.
 
I actually preferred 'Mad Max' as the peak oil documentary. :devilgrin:
 
my..THIS HAS TO BE THE WONGEST WUNNING POWITACALLYY COWWECT
TWEAD EVER...

BASIL IN YOUR OWN WORDS!!!

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]It's how the free market works [/QUOTE]
 

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angelfj said:
"Sure, we <span style="text-decoration: line-through">may</span> will run out of oil some day, but we are nowhere near that point yet and in the meantime research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious."

minor edit - only so much dinosaur blood in the earth.

I agree that the film was pessimistic, but the intention of the prodicers was to send a wake up call to those that watched.


"research into alternatives is progressing fast and furious"
- we have the technology now to build small ( > 100MW) breeder-reactor nukes for an applied ditributed energy scheme.
- cellulosic based bio-fuels that do not compete with the food chain are under development now.
- wind and solar are coming along
However, we must also reduce our usage and waste at the same time, IMHO.

Well said.
 
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