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furnace advice?
- Thread starter NutmegCT
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anthony7777
Yoda
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nutmeg, if i may - "let your fingers do the walking" now aint the time to be mucking about if you can help it! , perhaps if you describe the problem one of us could come up with some ideas, i did install an entire new system in my own house 4/5 years ago. 
OP
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The sordid story:
Perimeter (baseboard) hydronic heating. Weil McClain heat/hot water furnace, Wayne M-SR burner, both about 20 years old. Annual maintenance up to date. I've added the appropriate few drops of electric motor oil to the motor oil cups each year as recommended. No problems until recently.
For the last few weeks, maybe once every day or two, I'll notice the room temp is below the thermostat setting. I go down to the basement and see the oil burner motor has popped its motor reset button on the motor housing. That also seems to have popped the burner circuit (the *red* button and warning light) on the burner control box. When this happens, the motor smells hot, and feels quite warm to the touch.
Let it cool for about 15 minutes, punch the motor reset and control box buttons back in, and all is well for a few days.
Only happens maybe once every day or two, but prior to this month never happened.
What's my next step? Is the oil burner motor on its last legs? Any test I can do?
Thanks.
Tom
Perimeter (baseboard) hydronic heating. Weil McClain heat/hot water furnace, Wayne M-SR burner, both about 20 years old. Annual maintenance up to date. I've added the appropriate few drops of electric motor oil to the motor oil cups each year as recommended. No problems until recently.
For the last few weeks, maybe once every day or two, I'll notice the room temp is below the thermostat setting. I go down to the basement and see the oil burner motor has popped its motor reset button on the motor housing. That also seems to have popped the burner circuit (the *red* button and warning light) on the burner control box. When this happens, the motor smells hot, and feels quite warm to the touch.
Let it cool for about 15 minutes, punch the motor reset and control box buttons back in, and all is well for a few days.
Only happens maybe once every day or two, but prior to this month never happened.
What's my next step? Is the oil burner motor on its last legs? Any test I can do?
Thanks.
Tom
anthony7777
Yoda
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nutmeg, i think the motor your talking about is the one that runs the gun, is that the one you mean, do you smell any smoke when its running or after shut down? crown engineering sells a tune up kit for your unit $23.99. contains new electrods etc, but wont help much if the motor itself is getting fried, 20 years is a good run for them motors, might be time.
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BEARING lubricant. Bloody thing is grinding to a halt from the sounds of things. You've done all the "Suggested Maintenance" proceedures, yes? Cleaned out the "squirrel cage" of any debris to toss it outta balance, etc...
Renew what the motor ~drives~ first: Days now, *Hours* soon. No need to fill the house with smoke.
I'm twenty-five (at least) years away from maintaning a "heating" system, but would look to the LOAD before I condemn the "engine".
Renew what the motor ~drives~ first: Days now, *Hours* soon. No need to fill the house with smoke.
I'm twenty-five (at least) years away from maintaning a "heating" system, but would look to the LOAD before I condemn the "engine".
OP
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Thanks for the suggestions all.
Yep - the motor is indeed the one which turns the pump and injects the oil into the firebox. This is a hydronics (circulating hot water) system, not a steam or forced air system.
No late ignition, oil pump turns easy, no smoke or smoky smell. Electrodes adjusted fine, transformer cranking out 14Kv. Wonder if the motor has some type of "starter" circuit which is failing ....?
Doc - funny you mention the squirrel cage. As I was writing down the symptoms and details, a red squirrel was trying to chew/claw through a couple of clapboards on the south side of the house. I alternated writing furnace stuff with pounding my fist on the wall to scare the critter away.
T.
Yep - the motor is indeed the one which turns the pump and injects the oil into the firebox. This is a hydronics (circulating hot water) system, not a steam or forced air system.
No late ignition, oil pump turns easy, no smoke or smoky smell. Electrodes adjusted fine, transformer cranking out 14Kv. Wonder if the motor has some type of "starter" circuit which is failing ....?
Doc - funny you mention the squirrel cage. As I was writing down the symptoms and details, a red squirrel was trying to chew/claw through a couple of clapboards on the south side of the house. I alternated writing furnace stuff with pounding my fist on the wall to scare the critter away.
T.
hilsideser
Jedi Warrior
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Motor to going. Gets hot and seizes, trips breakers. Find a heating supplier and see if youcan geta replacement motor to match.
hilsideser
Jedi Warrior
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...IS going...
AweMan
Jedi Knight
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IF the motor has one, It could be a bad starter capasitor, I`v seen them get hot and fail while working in perfect order when cold. I`v also see the reset get weak and fail when hot, again working fine cold. IF the motor has brushes {Doubtful} they may be worn. But by letting the Motor cool off and re-starting it, and having it run on for a few days before failure, I rather think that there is a weak component overheating somewhere. And then again it very well could be the motor itsef. A new starter capasitor and reset mechanism are much cheaper than a motor.
Just some ideas,
Kerry
Just some ideas,
Kerry
OP
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Thanks for the ideas. Still haven't got a callback from the three tech guys I left messages for yesterday. I seriously think furnace techs go to the Caribbean for the winter.
Fortunately I have a "spare" motor for the burner. Only used 2 years in my neighbor's furnace before he converted to ground well heat exchanger. Exact same model motor.
Tom
Fortunately I have a "spare" motor for the burner. Only used 2 years in my neighbor's furnace before he converted to ground well heat exchanger. Exact same model motor.
Tom
NutmegCT said:
I would start with the obvious of making sure that everything turns freely, no obvious binding etc. Disconnect the motor (mechanically and electrically, and rotate the motor shaft and pump shafts by hand try to wiggle them back and forth etc. Since the thermal overload is popping the furnace has done 90% of the trouble shooting for you. Now you just need to figure out if it is the pump / blower or the motor which is shot.
If both motor and pump turn freely I would still swap in the new motor and see what happens. you never know, it could even be the safety switch itself which is causing the problem. (I had a problem like that with our oven every time it was self cleaned the safety switch disconnected everything. turns out they also go wacky)
One other thing, there is probably a contactor which switches on the motor. If that is going bad, and creating high resistance, it could also be causing problems for the motor (ie low voltage at the motor could increase amperage and heating) with the motor running measure the voltage across the contactor there should be no voltage loss.
Just one other thing BE VERY CAREFUL IF YOU ARE PLAYING WITH LIVE CURRENT. A cold house is much better than really being chilled.
OP
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More detail on the symptom:
I happened to be standing by the furnace when it kicked in.
First heard the circulator start, then the burner relay started the burner motor turning to pump the oil, mix with air, and ignite at the electrodes.
Voila! The motor turned slowly for the first couple seconds, and of course there was no ignition. Photocell saw no flame, so turned cut the motor circuit.
Few minutes later, relay called motor again. Turned slowly for two seconds, then quickly moved up to speed. When the right speed was hit, enough oil got pumped in and was ignited as it should be.
It's gotta be the motor itself, right? If it starts too slow?
Tom
I happened to be standing by the furnace when it kicked in.
First heard the circulator start, then the burner relay started the burner motor turning to pump the oil, mix with air, and ignite at the electrodes.
Voila! The motor turned slowly for the first couple seconds, and of course there was no ignition. Photocell saw no flame, so turned cut the motor circuit.
Few minutes later, relay called motor again. Turned slowly for two seconds, then quickly moved up to speed. When the right speed was hit, enough oil got pumped in and was ignited as it should be.
It's gotta be the motor itself, right? If it starts too slow?
Tom