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Fuel Pump Woes

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ReadT

ReadT

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Yesterday I replaced the broken aftermarket fuel pump on my moggie with a TR4A OE style Bosch unit. Connected the lines, pressed the starter button and it primed itself, cranked up, and ran beautifully.

After a short drive (it was like 30* outside and I don't have a top for the car)I let it idle for a little in the garage and shut if off.

The car would not restart because now no fuel is making it to the carbs. Fuel is being pumped from the tank into the glass bowl on the pump, and is making it to the top of the pump diaphragm, but not out the top of the fuel pump. The only thing that I could think would cause this would be a 1 way valve above the diaphragm that is stuck and not letting fuel flow out of the pump like it should. I opened the pump prodded at the rubber valve some with a dissecting probe and it budged a little bit, but wouldn't move much. The diaphragm is in good condition. Is this valve supposed to be hard to move much, or am I missing something like some wierd ball bearing contraption? Weird that after one drive where the pump worked fine it's just dead now.

When I pump it by hand and stick the feeder hose down into a tank of gasoline it does prime the pump - although the "spurts" of fuel into the glass bowl don't look as strong as they did the other day and it takes a good bit of pumping to get the bowl to fill up. There are no cracks in the diaphragm and the fuel just pools on top of it. When pumping it by hand a trickle of fuel runs backwards out of the pump and none moves in the correct direction.

I don't know what to do next, so figured I'd ask you experts.

Thanks for the suggestions!
-Read

PS: I can upload some pics if it would help
 
Some have had good success with rebuilding pumps but you need to know what kits to use.

I bought a pump made in Italy by BCD Torino. #1697/14C I bought it from World Wide Auto in Madison, WI just a couple miles from my door step. I has worked great and does not have the excessive fuel pressure that has been reported with some other brands. The only thing is that the pump comes with the pivot pin only staked to keep it from sliding out which happened to me. I simply purchased a chain clevis pin w/cotter key and slipped it in. I have nearly 20,000 miles on it now and it has been very dependable, other than the pin.

Check with Peter C at World Wide https://www.nosimport.com/
 
19138_753365138179_11816007_42054811_5707294_n.jpg


View of the top of the pump showing inlet valve on the L
 
The flutter valves are both the same, mounted in opposite positions and staked into the pump body. Could ethanol be a cause of this grief?

The pumps are an AC design, been around for a LOOONG time... Mebbe checking with a local NAPA parts store would yield a kit or replacement?

Just a thought.
 
I havn't had any liquid other than gasoline near the pump, so I don't think ethanol could have contacted them. For future reference, does ethanol + rubber = bad time?

Do you know if the flutter valves are just pressed into the pump body? I've seen other AC designs where the flutter valves are held in with a bolt so they can be replaced, but on this pump they don't look change-out-able.

The pump is 2 days old from NAPA, so I'll go talk to those guys up there and see what they say. Unfortunately when I picked that one up they informed me it was the last one the factory (Bosch) had listed in stock.
 
Nearly all "gasoline" sold in the US these days has ethanol in it (along with a whole witches brew of other chemicals). It will attack some rubbers; but any fuel system component made in the past 20 years or so should be compatible.
 
Most gasoline sold today has 10% ethanol added, that's where the concern is. If the rubber isn't formulated to withstand the alcohol, then it will deteriorate rather quickly. Newer rubber components for fuel are made to be compatible with ethanol.

The AC pumps came both ways concerning how the valves were held in place. The older pumps had a retaining plate and screw(s) to hold them in, and the later pumps just had crimps in the aluminum around the valves to hold them in, although yours appear to be pressed in. I guess that might be a third type. I have replaced the ones with the crimps, but it just takes a little finesse. You'll have to Dremel back the crimps to get the valves out, and then re-crimp with a punch or something.
 
I have a cheapo non stock pump on my car for 4 years now with no issues. Works fine and no ethenol problems....I have a rebuilt AC unit with TRF innards but no need to use yet.
 
He just changed the pump and I don't think the gas yukkies would attack it in 1 afternoon
 
I had this problem with my TR2. Ethanol reacted with the reed valves and swelled them up so they wouldnt work. From the pic, the bosch unit looks different from the AC unit,with the way the reed valves are attached. Use the laws of deduction. If fuel is getting to the pump and fills the bowl ,that part is ok. If Diaphram is ok and cam is working the lever,eliminate that part. If pump isnt pumping reed valves must not be working, It's a simple system. Also something to consider. Ethanol mix should be no more than 10%. Due to screw ups,it can be as high as 18 to 20%. Have you ever gotten a tank of gas that seemed to give really crappy mileage? Wrecks havoc with fuel systems but can rarely be proved. This was told to me by a guy who worked for an oil company.NEVER BY FLEX FUEL or that Oxygenated junk that Shell is pushing. It's Flex under a different name. Living in the Lakes region of NH fuel problems account for more than half of boat repair problems at the marinas I service with my business.Thank the idiots in Washington,ethanol industry lobbists and all the tree huggers.
 
Thank you John!

The marine industry has been aware of this issue for a while, it's a MESS!

I stand by my initial post.
 
John_Malinick said:
NEVER BY FLEX FUEL or that Oxygenated junk that Shell is pushing.
Click to expand...
Likely not true in Raleigh; but there are quite a few areas now where "oxygenated" is the law (including the Los Angeles area).
 
Well, if ya can't outlaw the cars, just control the available fuel... kinda like the gu...


...oh, nevermind.
 
Don raised a good point though, it seems like a stretch that if it was the gas it would have ruined it in a day. That seems awfully fast....
 
Howdy ReadT,

I had a very similar problem on my `59 Bugeye. It would start with no problems. I would be driving along and it would just start sputtering etc. and eventually quit.

I insulated the feul line near the carbs/engine thinking maybe Vapor Lock; "NOT"! Checked, cleaned etc all feul lines from tank to pump to carbs; "FREE FLOWING". Pulled the Pump & all seemed OK but still the same problem. I then bought a "Repro" pump from Moss & What I did notice was that the "ARM" that makes contact on the "LOBE" on the shaft seemed shorter than the Orig. but installed it anyway; "NO CHANGE". It surely was a "FEUL STARVATION" problem!

After a couple of wks. of messing with this problem; I finally invested in an Elec. Feul Pump ($40.00 approx.) & "ALL" problems went away!!

Something You may want to consider.

Happy New Year, Russ

PS: I left the "Repro" pump hooked up not knowing if it would overflow the carbs & It "DID`NT". She ran just "GREAT"; Right "MATT" if your reading this?
 
TR3driver said:
John_Malinick said:
NEVER BY FLEX FUEL or that Oxygenated junk that Shell is pushing.
Click to expand...
Likely not true in Raleigh; but there are quite a few areas now where "oxygenated" is the law (including the Los Angeles area).
Click to expand...

Another reason added to my long list as to why I wouldn't live in California.
 
PAUL161 said:
TR3driver said:
John_Malinick said:
NEVER BY FLEX FUEL or that Oxygenated junk that Shell is pushing.
Click to expand...
Likely not true in Raleigh; but there are quite a few areas now where "oxygenated" is the law (including the Los Angeles area).
Click to expand...

Another reason added to my long list as to why I wouldn't live in California.
Click to expand...

The fish tacos make up for a lot however....
 
PAUL161 said:
Another reason added to my long list as to why I wouldn't live in California.
Click to expand...
Good! Now if you could just convince all these other people to go away, it would be even nicer than it already is!

Yet another reason to stay away : Tomorrow I'll have to make a really tough decision; whether to go snow skiing; surfing; or take a nice top-down drive with the Triumph club.

Oh wait, I guess that's not so hard after all.
:devilgrin:
 
FWIW, the "Oxygenate" in the fuel is the Ethanol. It replaced MTBE. The stuff shell is selling is "Nitrogen Enriched". It simply exceeds the minimum levels of detergents already required by the EPA and is mostly a marketing ploy since Shell decided to stop investing in "alternative fuels". The only thing the Shell "Nitrogen Enriched" fuels might be harmful to is your wallet if your paying more for it. Oh, and if an oxygenated fuel is required in your area, then the Shell nitrogen enriched fuel also may contain up to 10% ethanol.
 
I about blew a gasket laughin' the first time I saw a "Nitrogen Enriched" sign on the Shell station (from the highway)... I was drivin' impaired for a bit. :jester:

Gives a different twist to th' term "Shell game" don't it. :wink:
 
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