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Front Suspension Overhaul Questions

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pipercollins

pipercollins

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OK, I've got enough autumn left for about one good project before it's time to park the car away for the winter.

I intend to overhaul my suspension all the way around, but I'm starting with the front. I've already got new shocks and springs to put on. Also boots for the steering gear, which are obviously needed. After that, there isn't anything that obviously needs to be replaced. The only bushings that look really bad are the ones that come with the shocks, so that's handled. I can jack the car up, and grab each wheel trying to rock side to side and up and down I don't get any play. Ball joints at least look ok. There isn't much play in the steering and I'm pretty happy with that.

So the big question is, what should I replace on general principles and what should be left alone if there are no obvious problems?

I figure you automatically rebuild the trunnions, right?

Are there any other checks I should do to look for trouble.

All help is appreciated.
 
You don't say what car you have but in general terms if you are looking to redo the front suspension I would strongly consider replacing the upper and lower control arm bushings and while your at it the ball joints as well. I think that if you go that far it makes no sense not to replace the ball joints... most of the work at getting at them will already be done, and they are not that expensive to replace.
Also, you might consider going to polyurethane bushing if you currently have the stock rubber.
As for springs, that will depend on the condition of them once you remove them to inspect them... and don't forget to use a spring compressor for safety sake.
These are just my thoughts, but your dollars :whistle:
Good luck!
 
When you start taking the suspension apart, I am sure that you will find that most or all of the bushings are worn out. With the spring out, anything loose is going to be free to wobble. Once it is all apart I wouldn't put any old bushing back.

I replaced all the bushings on the front end of my Herald with fairly hard nylon???? types. A bit rough but they made a huge difference in the handling. No wobble/ free play etc.
 
I'm pretty much of the "don't fix it if it ain't broke" school of thought. If there's play, find out where it is and fix THAT! The original rubber bushings in the wishbones are surprisingly durable; new rubber replacements seem less so.

Oh, and Elliot's right...more or less! Actually, the spring/shock assembly comes out as a unit and only needs the spring compressor for disassembly/reassembly on (I'm assuming, from your Avatar) a Spitfire.

Do check especially for any play in the nylon bushings through the trunnion. Some of us consider them almost a "normal maintenance" item in terms of regular replacement. If there's even the slightest trace of play, replace them now or risk "ovalling out" the trunnion, resulting in a much more expensive replacement.
 
The only advice I would give would be do "ONE SIDE AT A TIME" you then can go back and reference where every thing go's.

Good Luck
 
Russ Austin said:
The only advice I would give would be do "ONE SIDE AT A TIME" you then can go back and reference where every thing go's.

Good Luck
Click to expand...


Very sound advice and as a novice I'll add that using a "parts board" to keep
all the many suspension pieces organized and labeled is a big help. Take many
photos as you proceed in case you make an error and have to put something back.

With a proper "parts board" you can remove a piece and clean it up and know
exactly where it goes back. I also try to orient the pieces in the order they came off.

good luck - not too difficult if ya take yer time.

removed1.jpg


PowderCoat2.jpg
 
Digital camera helps too.....as shown by Dale above. Just in case you take a few pieces off of that board at one time and forget where each of them belong.
 
Thanks for all the advice guys. I'm hip to the digital camera reference thing. (My other sideline project is restoring antique gas stoves...lots of little parts.)

Yes, it's a 76 spitfire 1500.

I do hear different philosophies on replacing the A-arm bushings and ball joints. Some folks say the original ones last longer than replacements if they're not obviously bad. I guess I won't know how obviously bad they are until I dig in. We shall see...
 
So this isn't the question you asked, but make sure you nip any rust issues/bubbling now before you put her away. Bushings won't make a difference if they aren't attended to between now and the spring, but rust will.

Fresh oil in isn't a bad idea either, but people will debate if it is necessary.

Poly bushings are really worth investigating, both as a handling improvement and for longevity,
 
tdskip said:
So this isn't the question you asked, but make sure you nip any rust issues/bubbling now before you put her away. Bushings won't make a difference if they aren't attended to between now and the spring, but rust will.

Fresh oil in isn't a bad idea either, but people will debate if it is necessary.

Poly bushings are really worth investigating, both as a handling improvement and for longevity,
Click to expand...

<span style="color: #990000">I totally agree with tdskip.

FWIW: All the rubber bushings in my '69TR6 were either missing or
broken into pieces. I doubt you'll find many good ones.

As to the oil debate? Since I'm a novice and the Triumph factory
filled my trunnions with oil; I removed all the grease the DPO had
pumped into the trunnions and replaced it with the recommended oil.

Maybe not required but I replaced every bolt, nut, washer with brand
new Grade #8.

Just my take on things.

dale(Tinster)</span>
 
pipercollins said:
So the big question is, what should I replace on general principles and what should be left alone if there are no obvious problems?

I figure you automatically rebuild the trunnions, right?

Are there any other checks I should do to look for trouble.
Click to expand...

My thinking would be to replace the ball joints, rebuild the trunnions, and replace bushings with urethane. This is inexpensive enough, and will make a difference. Also, I would take the steering rack out and check per the manual, and at a minimum clean, inspect and repack the bearings. When I rebuilt my TR4A suspension, I sent the steering rack out for a rebuild as it was pretty sloppy. Then, IMHO You should have it professionally aligned. Good Luck
 
I'm working on a 1960 TR3 restoration and just started the front suspension. Wonder if you might have some advice or direction. I bought a rebuild kit from Moss but the steel inserts for the the lower swing arms seem very sloppy. The steel sleeve that fits over the fulcrum pin is loose and the nylon bushing that fits over the sleeve also seems loose.
I reamed out the outer bushing (the one with a brass insert in the steel sleeve) to 5/8" dia. on the outer arm bushing and it also seems sloppy to me. I measure the trunion pins at 0.620 dia.

I've got a good shop so I can make the bushings if that would help.

Any advice would be appreciated. I'm new at the restore business.

Thanks

Ike
 
Hi Ike and welcome to the forum - you may want to start a new thread for this to get more feedback(top of the forum list there is a tab that says new topic).

Do you have some corrosion issue or wear issues that are obvious on the fulcrum and trunnion pins? I've not seen that before on the fulcrum pins, but the trunnion pins can easily be worn and give you a sloppy fit. New trunnions might be appropriate in that case.

Regards,
Randy
 
Randy- thanks for the fast reply. I did try to open a new thread or topic, still working my way around this site. You are right- there is no significant corrossion on the fulcrum pins and I don't see signs of abnormal wear. I think I should have left the fulcrum pin sleeves in place and just replaced the nylon bushing but I dinged them up during removal. The old fulcrum sleeves fit snug. The new ones have the slop I described. After looking at the design more carefully, I can see the fulcrum sleeves are designed not to rotate, only the nylon bushing sees motion.
That got me to thinking about making new fulcrum bushes from steel or brass with a good fit to the pins, possibly secure with low strength loctite to prevent scuffing.
If I made new nylon bushings then pressed them into the arm, I could ream to the correct size for the fulcrum pin. Am I making this way more complicated than it needs to be? All this work, I would like the car to handle well.

Ike
 
Ike,
I just completed a rebuild of my TR4's front suspension ( pics ). I used a 'magic kit' from TRF and had no trouble. The steel sleeve that slides over the lower pin was good and snug. My gut tells me that the error is on Moss. My TR4 has some miles on her, and the lower inner pin showed no real signs of wear. Have you measured the OD of the pin and the ID of the sleeve? Just curious...Good Luck.
Tim
 
Tim - I pulled all the components apart and there is no significant corrossion on the fulcrum pins and no signs of abnormal wear. I think I should have left the fulcrum pin sleeves in place and just replaced the nylon bushing but I dinged them up during removal. The old fulcrum sleeves fit snug. The car has been sitting in my garage for a few years partially disassembled but protected from the elements. The old fulcrum sleevs came off hard but were not corroded in place. I only used a lite shot of penetrating oil and had to resort to a pipe wrench to get them to rotate - then they wiggled off fairly easy. The new ones have the slop I described. The fulcrum pins measure about 0.620/ - 0.621 diameter and a 5/8 reamer easiely slides thru the steel bushings so there must be approx 0.005 clearance, which seem high. After looking at the design more carefully, I can see the fulcrum sleeves are designed not to rotate, only the nylon bushing sees motion.
That got me to thinking about making new fulcrum bushes from steel or brass with a good fit to the pins, possibly secure with low strength loctite to prevent scuffing.
If I made new nylon bushings then pressed them into the arm, I could ream to the correct size for the fulcrum pin. Am I making this way more complicated than it needs to be? All this work, I would like the car to handle well.

Ike
 
IKE said:
If I made new nylon bushings then pressed them into the arm, I could ream to the correct size for the fulcrum pin. Am I making this way more complicated than it needs to be? All this work, I would like the car to handle well.

Ike
Click to expand...

Ike-

If it were me, I'd still try to source different inner sleeves. The factory put them there for some reason, my guess is that wanted some kind of sacrificial sleeve to protect the frame pins. You certainly could do what you suggest and I think it could work very well, but later if there is some wear issue you might be hurting something very expensive to fix. Just a thought.

Randy
 
IKE said:
Am I making this way more complicated than it needs to be? All this work, I would like the car to handle well.

Ike
Click to expand...

I don't think so Ike, it's the details that matter. I'd want it to be right as well.
 
I used antisieze on the inner fulcrum pins on mine after struggling to remove the old ones. I even lubed the new sleeves inside and out during re-assembly. I think that both surfaces need to be able to pivot/turn. After the complete rebuild, adding an Addco bar, handling is great.
 
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