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Front hub replacement.

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Jeepster

Jeepster

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I have always had a small amount of play on my front left wheel and assumed it was the fit between the hub and the wheel. The hubs looked pretty good but the wheels were in need of replacement.

Finally bought a new new wheel but the play is still there, so it seems the hub is in need or replacement.

i have read through many previous posts that discuss in detail the trials of refitting the bearings and shimming the end float etc, I'm not concerned with that as yet.....

My question is relating to the hub itself, if I buy a new hub, will I have to re fit the bearing race x2 from the old hub to the new one? And is this a straightforward job or is it an interference fit that will require presses etc?

The disc looks to be bolted to the hub? Is this with studs or bolts?

I am am trying to assess what parts I need to buy in before I start the job. It may be wise to replace the bearings as they are out.

Any advice greatly appreciated.
 
The hardest part is getting the split pin out of the castle nut , once thats done it should all come apart easily . Clean and inspect the bearings and just repack them if they are good . You will need to remove the outer races with a brass drift or similar . No presses needed . Patience time and a few cold beer and its all good .

The disc is bolted to the hub .
 
What do you mean by "play"? Can you feel movement of the wheel-to-hub in an in and out direction (improperly shimmed), or as you rotate the wheel back and forth (perhaps worn splines)?
You can clean/inspect the old bearings and if they are acceptable you can repack and reuse them, but you'll have to remove the races and install them in the new hub. It isn't especially difficult to drive them out with a brass drift (a cutout in the hub next to the race is provided for this purpose, but be careful not to get them cocked as you reinstall them. Tap them in on alternate sides until you feel solid resistance. The sound will change when they are home.

Phase 1 hubs have studs in them for the brake disc. Phase 2 hubs use bolts, lock washers, and nuts to attach the discs.
 
Jeepster, I concur with HealeyNut except that to me the most tedious part is driving the old bearing races from the hubs. but if you have new hubs I would certainly buy new bearing all the way around. That would be two inner and two outer. the new bearings have matched outer races in the box with them. Those races are what you want to drive into the new hubs with a big brass drift. The brass will not scratch the races or the hub if it slips. Get the races squared up in the hub openings, you can get them started with a soft blow hammer. You can use a piece of squared up wood, like a 2x4 chunk of wood. Put the wood on top of the race and tap the race down into the hub. Then use a brass drift to drive it all the way in. Make sure the race is all the way in. And that it sits in the hub evenly. Pack your bearings with good grease, put in the distance piece and shims and tighten it up.
NOW HAVING SAID ALL THIS , DO THIS BEFORE YOU TAKE ANYTHING APART. I had a little slop in my one front wheel bearing for quite awhile and could not understand it. It so happens that that particular wheel had no shims in it. It had the distance piece but no shims. Therefore presumably it had no way to adjust it. I contemplated milling a smidgen off the distance piece to reduce the play in the bearing. But before I did this I was re-reading the shop manual about the front bearings. What caught my eye was that the manual stated that it was permissible to torque the front bearing nut to between 40 and 70 lb/ft of torque for the purpose of aligning the cotter pin. 40 TO 70 LB/FT TORQUE ON A BEARING... I had never heard of that much pressure put on a bearing. In all my years, the way I have learned to set up bearing is that some are set up with .001 to .002 end play, which means they are loose from the beginning or some are set with just zero end play, and some are set with just a very minimal preload which might be measured in a few inch lbs. But 40 to 70 lb ft. Wow, beyond anything I would have imagined. But since I had exhausted all measures I could think of to eliminate the end play in that bearing, i decided to do it. I got out my torque wrench and set it at 40 lb/ft of torque and comensed to turn the nut past zero lash. I got to just 40 lb/ft setting, ( the low end of the recommended specification) and the loosness in the bearing was gone. I thought, well 'ya never did that before but there you have it' That was 3 summers ago and about 9000 miles and its still going. So maybe ya just need to tighten it up. That's what the book says, not me.
 
Healey Nut--

You said: "Patience time and a few cold beer and its all good."

They don't drink their beer cold over there.
 
Vette , torquing the stub nut to 40 to 70 lb./ft. isn't the same as torquing the bearings to that figure! You just happened to remove all the end float without compressing the bearings .
 
If you freeze the bearing races and heat the hubs in boiling water, you can tap or push the races in. I have the Harbor Freight Bearing and Seal Drivers, but pieces of appropriate-sized PVC pipe work well as drivers.
 
Brinkerhoff, now that you mention it I do believe your right because all the torque is going against the shims and the distance piece. I quess I was relating my memory to most of the traditional American cars with tapered roller bearings. There you have no distance piece, etc and the torque would all be put on the bearing. In which case you don't near tighten them up that much. Even in the Corvette's rear trailing arms the rear bearing are pressed on the stub axles with a distance piece and shims just as the Healey has on the fronts. But the Healey bearings are not an interference press fit they just slide on. On the Vettes the rear spindle nut is torqued to about 100 ft lbs. I should have noticed the obvious. Thanks for straightening me out.
 
The nominal torque spec for the stub axles is rather silly; just torque as much as you possibly can and still get a slot in the castellated nut to line up with the hole in the axle (you're not going to snap the end of the axle off by torquing the nut, unless you're Superman, and if you do it's better it happens in the garage than on the road). If you torque to 70lb-ft, the hole is between slots on the nut, and you back off the nut to line up the hole, what torque have you applied? The torque/pressure is required to lock the keyed washer, distance piece, shims and spacer into what is, for all intents and purposes, a solid unit. I failed to torque sufficiently once, and spun the keyed washer--with accompanying screeching that sounded like a wheel bearing had disintegrated--at the beginning of a long road trip. Fortunately, the washer lodged itself against the threads of the axle after a few miles, and the trip continued without problem.

I still don't understand what 'play' we're talking about; if it's end play your shim pack it too thick and there's insufficient preload on the bearings; if it's side-to-side play, the splines on the hub or the wheel hub--or both--are (possibly, see below) worn, and require immediate replacement. Neither is cheap, but if you're going to replace the wheel/hub you'll need to replace the axle hub as well unless it is near-new or not significantly worn (and vice versa). Beware there were some ill-fitting axle hubs being sold a few years ago, but I suspect the reputable outfits--Welch, SC Spare, etc.--would have good pieces by now. If it's top/bottom end play, you likely need new vertical bushings in the stub axle; note side-to-side play may also be caused by worn trunnion/bushings in the stub axle (aka 'steering knuckle').

If you go into the bearings, don't forget a new seal on the inboard side of the hub. Make sure there's no groove in the spacer where the seal rides; if so, you'll need a new spacer.
 
Just to clarify-

the play I am experiencing is between the wheel and the hub, there is a minute amount of play in the bearings but I can wiggle the wheel and the disc is stationary. The splines look ok and there is zero movement by rotating the wheel back and forth.

Its surprising that im getting this amount of play as I thought the design of the spinner and hub flange would take this up?
 
Jeepster

Are you sure that the disc is stationary, it is smaller than the wheel so the throw, if any, will be smaller - do you have a dial guage and stand? you can see if it is moving then. When I installed new hubs last year I installed new bearings as well - seems like a past time, as I installed new ones some 8 years or more ago when I put new discs on, but my Guru shamed me into renewing them again.

:cheers:

Bob
 
Bob Hughes said:
Jeepster

Are you sure that the disc is stationary, it is smaller than the wheel so the throw, if any, will be smaller - do you have a dial guage and stand? you can see if it is moving then. When I installed new hubs last year I installed new bearings as well - seems like a past time, as I installed new ones some 8 years or more ago when I put new discs on, but my Guru shamed me into renewing them again.

:cheers:

Bob
Click to expand...
I don't have a DTI but intend to get one asap.
Im pretty sure it's the hub and wheel that are the problem and the disc is not moving because with my old wheel I could reduce the play to very little by really tightening down the spinner.
Now that the new wheel has proved there is an issue with the hub, I had better get it swapped. Shame as it doesn't look too old as I think it was replaced by the previous owner.
 
Before I replaced my wheels and hubs there was about 3/4" play between the wheel and hub at the outside diameter of the tire. Now that they are both replaced, there is no play.
 
How tight do you make the knock-on hubcap? I always tighten until they ring. Remember that on a Rudge type hub it is the taper that drives the wheel, not the splines.
 
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