Front engine oil leak

[TulsaFred]

My rear seal from Gerard works great, but now I'm trying to track down an oil leak from the front.

It is dripping down from the backside of the front engine plate. I guess it could be the front semicircular gasket/seal in the oil pan, but there is no oil dripping down the front of the pan, so it would have to be running forward along the crank and hitting the engine plate.

Other possibilities?

on the engine stand, oil dripping onto the red bar below:

Close up, hard to see, but the drip is forming on the backside of the front plate. There is a little line of oil coming straight down from where the plate meets the crank:

 

[Gerard]

Seems that leaves the timing cover or the crankshaft pulley seal. The cover should not be tightened until you've centered the seal on the pulley. Also, scoring or pitting on the pull shaft could contribute to the problem. Sometimes a Speedi-sleeve is needed to refresh the surface. I can provide the part number.

 

[TulsaFred]

I think if it was the timing cover it would drip from in front of the plate just at the bottom of the cover. A little line coming straight down the backside of the front plate could be the crankshaft pulley seal, but I don't really remember what this looks like. Can you reference a Moss or VB part number? I would be interested in the speedi-sleeve part number just in case.
thanks
Fred

 

[Gerard]

Seems that leaves the timing cover or the crankshaft pulley seal. The cover should not be tightened until you've centered the seal on the pulley. Also, scoring or pitting on the pull shaft could contribute to the problem. Sometimes a Speedi-sleeve is needed to refresh the surface. I can provide the part number.

OK, I may have misunderstood your description. If it's dripping down the back of the plate, then that would indicate that the front plate cover gasket is not sealing. It could possibly be the oil pan also, but then I would think you'd have oil dripping down the pan. I would dry everything off well, and watch where it begins from a fresh startup.

Speedi-sleeve part number is SKF 99091. It is slightly longer the the pulley shank depth, but is easily filed back flush.

 

[markberry]

i just went through this same problem on mine. hard to track down because the access is so difficult under these cars. I ended up changing the front plate gasket, oil pan gaskets, speedi sleeved the pulley, new front crank seal and timing chain cover gasket. i used Toyota FIPG sealant on all the gaskets as well (nothing is getting past that goo). I hope i got it! i won't be firing the engine up for awhile.

 

[TulsaFred]

Interesting Mark. Sounds like you just went the full monty on the fix. One thing I notice with mine is that it doesn't leak while the motor is running or immediately after shutting down. It seems to leak after it sits for a little while.
I'm thinking that supports the oil pan front seal as the possible cause, ie. when the oil drains back down and fills the pan it runs up against the from seal. It's sitting on an engine stand, so maybe the engine tilts back a little when installed in the car. If it is level or slightly forward tilted that would make it worse.


Maybe I'll drain a quart out and see if that stops the leak.

Otherwise, if that doesn't produce a solution, I'll go your route. If I have to pull of the front plate, might as well do the speedi sleeve, and timing chain cover gasket/pulley seal.
It'll be so much fun getting the crank bolt off again...


BTW, what is Toyota FIPG sealant?

 

[nomad]

BTW, what is Toyota FIPG sealant?

It would be interesting to get opinion's on sealant's. I tore down an engine built by a PO that I had to use a heavy duty putty knife like a chisel to disassemble. What ever he used never did come off and the only thing that separated was the gasket. The stuff he used resembled liquid nail's! I used to use Yamaha case bond and recently purchased an aftermarket sealant that is close.

Kurt.

 

[Gerard]

It would be interesting to get opinion's on sealant's. I tore down an engine built by a PO that I had to use a heavy duty putty knife like a chisel to disassemble. What ever he used never did come off and the only thing that separated was the gasket. The stuff he used resembled liquid nail's! I used to use Yamaha case bond and recently purchased an aftermarket sealant that is close.

Kurt.

That's part of the reason I only use Hylomar. I've never had a leak, and things can be taken apart without tearing the gasket. There is a Hylomar Brand, and Permatex makes a version as well. I believe both are available on Amazon, as they can be had to find locally. Many of the original BMC shop manuals actually specify Hylomar as well.

 

[markberry]

It would be interesting to get opinion's on sealant's. I tore down an engine built by a PO that I had to use a heavy duty putty knife like a chisel to disassemble. What ever he used never did come off and the only thing that separated was the gasket. The stuff he used resembled liquid nail's! I used to use Yamaha case bond and recently purchased an aftermarket sealant that is close.

Kurt.

i've heard good things about Hylomar, but i'm always confused as to what it is (is there more than one type of Hylomar?) and where to get it. my neighbor is a toyota parts salesman and he assured me that "short of having completely destroyed rings, no oil will ever be able to leak past this stuff". my crank pully looked pretty good but i found a speedi sleeve on Amazon for $20 so i went with it just in case. if it prevents me from having to pull the radiator and pully off again later, it'll be worth it.

 

[Gerard]

It would be interesting to get opinion's on sealant's. I tore down an engine built by a PO that I had to use a heavy duty putty knife like a chisel to disassemble. What ever he used never did come off and the only thing that separated was the gasket. The stuff he used resembled liquid nail's! I used to use Yamaha case bond and recently purchased an aftermarket sealant that is close.

Kurt.

i've heard good things about Hylomar, but i'm always confused as to what it is (is there more than one type of Hylomar?) and where to get it. my neighbor is a toyota parts salesman and he assured me that "short of having completely destroyed rings, no oil will ever be able to leak past this stuff". my crank pully looked pretty good but i found a speedi sleeve on Amazon for $20 so i went with it just in case. if it prevents me from having to pull the radiator and pully off again later, it'll be worth it.

Hylomar is a brand of non-hardening sealer. I use it on everything from rear axles seals to all the gaskets on an engine. It's impervious to gas and oil. One of the things I like about it is that tiny can remove or reposition gaskets without tearing them, and you have lots of working time. It;'s easily removed if you need to start over, and only needs to be applied very sparingly, and won't run or drip. The Hylomar brand tends to be a little thicker product than the Permatex version.

 

[nomad]

Hylomar is a brand of non-hardening sealer. I use it on everything from rear axles seals to all the gaskets on an engine. It's impervious to gas and oil. One of the things I like about it is that tiny can remove or reposition gaskets without tearing them, and you have lots of working time. It;'s easily removed if you need to start over, and only needs to be applied very sparingly, and won't run or drip. The Hylomar brand tends to be a little thicker product than the Permatex version.

Gerard, I've used Hylomar and agree with good points you attribute to it. I am kinda leaning toward the stuff that the PO used that I mentioned though. Would love to be able to glue my cork valve cover gasket on to the valve cover and then only grease it on the head side. That's just one use that I have currently been using contact cement for. Then there are places that one would like to fill in with something that stick's better than silicone.
I may have to check out the Toyota goo!!

Kurt.

 

[TulsaFred]

I took off the oil pan only to determine that was not the source of the leak.

I tore down front of the engine today- removed crank pulley/dampener, timing cover, timing chain/gears. Below is a pick of the area of the leak from the internal side. I assume the leak developed between the block and the front plate (actually in this case between the first main bearing cap and the front engine plate). The leak seemed to develop right at the 6 o'clock position at the very bottom of the plate. The only thing that jumps out at me are the two little holes in the bearing cap here. What are they for?

 

[TulsaFred]

This is the front of the crankshaft with the timing gears removed.
is

 

[Gerard]

They allow oil to drain back to the sump.

You must have a breach in the gasket.

This is the front of the crankshaft with the timing gears removed.
is

 

[Rut]

Fred,
Are those the oil return holes thru the front main cap? My engine builder on my MGB showed me how to fit the main caps so they are flush with the block not only where the oil pan fits, but where the front and rear plates fit. After we did this I had no leaks! I also use Permatex Ultra Gray gasket maker which I really like along with the stock Payen gasket set.
Rut

 

[CraigC]

BTW, what is Toyota FIPG sealant?

I may have to check out the Toyota goo!!

As a Toyota tech, I can tell you that FIPG is nothing terribly special. Just another version of black silicone sealant, although there are two versions. One is primarily for oil exposure and one for coolant exposure. The acronym "FIPG" stands for Form In Place Gasket.
My personal choice for my own engines is Permatex Ultra Grey, used sparingly.

 

[TulsaFred]

I figured that's what those holes were.

This area seems to be a weak spot in the front plate seal since the sealing surface is pretty sparse, especially when the two holes are there to further reduce the surface area. Plus, those little allen screws don't draw that part of the plate up very tight.

I'll have to check the main bearing cap for "flushness". Not sure what to do to correct if it isn't flush though.

Fred

 

[Gerard]

I figured that's what those holes were.

This area seems to be a weak spot in the front plate seal since the sealing surface is pretty sparse, especially when the two holes are there to further reduce the surface area. Plus, those little allen screws don't draw that part of the plate up very tight.

I'll have to check the main bearing cap for "flushness". Not sure what to do to correct if it isn't flush though.

Fred

They can easily be lapped.A mill would also do, but I've never found the need to do either to the front main cap.

 

[TulsaFred]

In looking at the parts diagram, I think I may be missing the "packing washer", number 27 :

https://www.victoriabritish.com/icatalog/sm/full.aspx?Page=81

This is right in the area. I wonder if it could have anything to do with it.

 

[TulsaFred]

I think I found the problem. Check out this video! it addresses the two little screws. I think I have the wrong ones.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rad7cdJmT6k