• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

front bearing races

Share this page

19_again

19_again

Jedi Warrior
Offline
Hub's off, old beat up broken bearings are out however my new bearing kit has 5 parts. 1 pin, 2bearings and what I believe are 2 races into which the bearings are seated. The problem is that I have races already in place in the hub and they seem to be really torqued in. The inner race looks pretty good and that bearing was ok, the outer (as in furthest from the engine)race is impossible to see and also was the problem area. I have read here that if the race shows any signs of wear, it's junk. Is it possible that the races are in fact torqued in, or are there hubs that have "built-in" races?

Here's a picture of the "existing" race in place, Should this be there?
https://www.villagephotos.com/pubbrowse.asp?folder_id=2018703
 
The races are pressed into the hubs. Get all the old grease out of the hub and you will see cutouts on either side of the hub where a drift punch can be brought to bear on the races. a judicious application of a hammed on the drift punch, first on one side, then the other will drive the old race out. You should get a special bearing race punch set to drive the new races in without damaging them.
Cheers,
 
David, Thanks for clearing that up, is the bearing race punch something that a good, not autozone if you know what I mean, parts house would have?
 
Thanks again. I recall reading in the archives prior to starting this topic that Tony had mentioned the castellated nuts ( why does sound like so much fun, when in fact...?)are "sided", and also needn't be all that tight. the left one came off with very little effort with my needlenose, the right one is quite tight. I fear I probably tightened it as I was trying to remove it using righty-tighty, lefty-loosey. Also John Twist in has priceless video mentioned 60 lb torque on the nuts.
1. does the thread pattern follow the outer hub pattern?
2. consensus on torque?
 
The hub end threads are "normal" (i.e. right-hand thread). You ~should ~ see some thin shims and a funky tube in the hubs between the bearings also. There will be much contention as to the necessity of these pieces but: if you torque the hub nut to 60 ft/lb without proper spacers/shims you will overtorque (therefore ruin) those new bearings. If you don't have spacers/shims you will need to tighten the nut slowly as you rotate the hub on the bearings, when it begins to be difficult to turn back off one "flat" or the nearest cotterpin alignment hole. Be aware too: there are two sets of holes 90* from one-another.
 
There weren't shims in the unit when I removed it, but that may have a lot to do with why I am messing with this in the first place. But since the book and John Twist and Doc, not in that order of course, all suggest torque on the nut, that will be the plan. John does make it sound as if you just set the 60 lbs and you're good, but obviously the cotter pin placement has to take precedence over exactly 60lbs, hence the shims. Also since the left nut was loose enough to remove with needlenose, then there wasn't any torque to speak of and that is the side that went bad. Maybe now I can get some sleep!
Thank David and Doc, and btw the red ones do need a 20 oz!! :hammer:
Mike
 
Careful, Mike... 60ft/lb will be too much if there aren't proper shims. It'll drive the rollers into the cups and the bearings will be trash.
 
Snug to resistance then back off to nearest pin alignment. :wink:
 
That's gonna be better, as no matter how many shims I put in and take out, once I get to any kind of real torque at all, I get resistance and can't get any free rotations at all. I'll spin the wheel and get perhaps a half or whole revolution, but that's the most. My old discs are rusty and grooved and I know I'll get some resistance there until a few miles are on, but there should be more freedom with new bearings. I got new discs on ebay months ago, figuring I'd change them when I had the right frame of mind, now with the bearings gone, it made sense to dig them out. I didn't know they had to be milled,(DUH!!)so that's why the old discs remain. Also just realized what the hole in the hub is for, but only after calling on all the saints to help pull the old cotter pins, another huge DUH.
 
I had to buy shims from Moss - mine had shims but not enough.
Today I need to go out and pull the drivers side again to make sure its right.

Do both sides act this way for you or just one?
On mine the passenger side is correct - 60 ft lbs and it spins freely.
The driver side has resistance, so I will go out and put in one more thin shim today.

You buy the shims in terms of thickness, I recommend getting some of each.
 
Well after Rick's message I went back out and removed the hub to double check my notes that I had used only a .30 shim. I had. I set the nut at snug yet maximum free spin, as I perceive that to be the goal here. I then tightened the nut to the nearest free pin hole, insert the pin and checked the tunk. There is none, either pushing and pulling straight on or as I learned prior to this thread pressing at 3 and 9 oclock. So 1. free spin and 2. no tunk, but 3. probably only about 30 lbs. torque. part 3 scares me, but the other two parts seem to fit.
That seems to fit Doc's and Tony's instructions, but quite contrary to both Rick and University.
 
I brought this up at our last meeting at the MG Car Club NW and the consensus of the old timers was that John Twist is right.
One very knowledgeable guy said (quoting some famous British car guy) something to the effect of: "Son, the people at MG paid top engineers real fine money to come up with a way to strengthen this part on these cars, now why would you doubt them?"

I jacked mine up today and felt the spin, the only drag is from the brake and I have no 'tunk'. That being said if your pin is in and you have 30 lbs on it I think it's going to be OK. Just my $0.02 :wink:
 
The whole idea with the tube and shims was that as you find the proper shim thickness to allow 60ft/# torque AND a moderate preload on the bearings, you have effectively made the stub axle and inner bearing races into a single unit MUCH stronger than just the stub axle alone with two pre-loaded bearings as stress points. If you intend to subject the car to autocross or racing the shim pack/60Ft-lb "drill" should be done correctly.
 
Yes, I have decided to try to 60lb method, I will simply load up with shims and work backwards. While the existing 30lb setup seems very tight tunk-wise, I'm a little jittery as I tend to push the car when I'm not being "supervised". And Rick's comment from the meeting shows that there's lots of questions about this deal, but I agree with the idea that the engineers did it for a reason. I'll file a final report, if anyone can stand it, as soon as I get done. Thanks to all again.
 
19_again said:
Yes, I have decided to try to 60lb method, I will simply load up with shims and work backwards. While the existing 30lb setup seems very tight tunk-wise, I'm a little jittery as I tend to push the car when I'm not being "supervised". And Rick's comment from the meeting shows that there's lots of questions about this deal, but I agree with the idea that the engineers did it for a reason. I'll file a final report, if anyone can stand it, as soon as I get done. Thanks to all again.
Click to expand...

iagree.gif

That's exactly how I did mine as I didn't want to overload the bearings. It's a royal pain in the neck, but a lot safer. I'd be curious as to how the factory did this on a production bases.
 
IIRC it was all done by hand. Labour intensive assembly.
 
Well boys and girls, it's done. Had to pick up an indexed washer after I somehow broke mine, not quite sure how that happened given my continued insistence to keep low torque settings but anyhoo. I put all four shims (.3,.01,.005,.003) largest closest to inside, tightened to 60lbs intending to remove smallest first if necessary and voila; I've got free spin and no tunk. Same on both sides and it actually feels like it rolls easier, I'm sure that's my imagination. I only hope I have enough grease, as my brother scared the beegees out of me by saying they had to be LOADED up big time. But I've got new discs from ebay to throw on and didn't get to it with this work, so I'll watch them and redo it all at once.Thanks again to all.
Mike
 
Mike, great to hear it - you will feel more secure as you drive it that way just knowing you got it "right".
I feel better with my wife driving 'our' 70 B now that mine is put together right.

From what I heard on Youtube the extra grease you put in there will work its way to the center somehow and lube the inner bearing. I don't see how this works but if "the man" said it I'll believe it.
 
Back
Top