"Free Speech" and the Internet

[DrEntropy]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

None what so ever!

Matter of fact, I agree with 'im.

 

[Tinster]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

None what so ever!

Matter of fact, I agree with 'im.

<span style="color: #660000">I knew you'd agree, Doc.
Frank has always struck me as a sweetheart Swede.
Though he sometimes claims he is eye-TAL-yun.

d :crazy:
</span>

 

[angelfj1]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

Awww, c'mon Frank.

...I thought it wuz *sweet*. :smirk:

<span style="color: #006600">And here I been thinkin' Frank is a Swede!
Ya can shorten it, if ya say in Spanish- "Nabo"</span>

:thumbsup:

If I were a veggie, I would probably be a zuccini or some other form of squash, you know, built close to the ground.

 

[longbridgehealey]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

No harm, no foul... I was wondering for a couple minutes there, probably over reacted. Leaving for Florida tomorrow, see (or talk to) you all next week!

Larry

 

[longbridgehealey]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

"I don't think that "kiss up" comment was aimed at you"


Yep, reread it, and you're probably right. Thanks for the insight. Gotta go, listening to the Yanks trying to beat Tampa Bay!!

Larry

 

[terriphill]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

This is a very interesting thread. Mainly because I have the responsibility of introducing my students to the internet as a resource for scientific information and learning how to discriminate between what is "free speech" and what is legitimate information that can be used as sources in research. You would be surprised how many students will cite blog entries as legitimate sources.
I do not agree that ideas, thoughts or ideas should ever be censored...but it would be nice if sites gave some hints that the ideas expressed may be opinions and not factual. (I hate restricting them to .edu or .gov sites because there are many .com sites with accurate and good information)
I created a page on my site one year that explained in a very detailed way that the sky is blue because some guy named Harold rides his purple dinosaur and colors it every morning. It was obviously fake and trash, but once its out there, it would appear on search engines if you searched for "Why is the sky blue" Now, this is a simplistic way to show kids that what they read is not always true, but It did emphasize the point that "free speech" is not always "truth"

 

[DrEntropy]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

You would be surprised how many students will cite blog entries as legitimate sources.

Same with Wikipedia. A ~base~ for more research, p'raps but NOT to be taken as a legit source for facts.

Gotta go, listening to the Yanks trying to beat Tampa Bay!!

You comin' down here after THAT statement?!?!

...hope you're goin' down Miami way...

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

Terriphill: <span style="font-style: italic">You would be surprised how many students will cite blog entries as legitimate sources. </span>

Wouldn't doubt that at all. Twenty-first century's motto: "If it's on the 'net, it must be true!"

Terri - how do you actually go about helping the kids figure out for themselves what is reliable, and what is hearsay? Teaching kids to think for themselves, rather than copying junk and pasting it into their mental buffers, is what it's all about.

(how's that for mixing metaphors?)

Thanks.
Tom

 

[Basil]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

Teaching kids to think for themselves, rather than copying junk and pasting it into their mental buffers, is what it's all about.

<span style="font-size: 14pt">Tom I could not agree more!</span> As a Senior Analyst, I just about go nuts hearing some of the "stuff" that passes for facts these days. The thing kids need to be taught also is be able to <span style="text-decoration: underline">objectively look at information and data</span> and to be able to separate propaganda from reality. Don't just accept something as absolute truth because some so-called experts say it is so. Experts are not always right - history is full of examples of this.

Not long ago, I was listening to a certain activist on TV making claims about a certain topic (never mind what topic - that's not the point of this discussion). He said that X was happening because of Y and X was gong to happen more because of Y in the future. It was a very alarmist thing he was saying and, if true, was indeed troubling. But being an analyst, I just had to investigate further, so I went to the root source for the data regarding X and found that what the activist was saying was absolutely, demonstrably false.

Nonetheless, the news person who was interviewing the activist just nodded his head in agreement at every piece of Barbara Streisand that came out of the activists mouth. It made me want to puke. There was no opposing view presented or even considered in the discussion. So yes, by all means, teach kids to think - key word - THINK!

 

[Steve]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

And if I may add my two pence worth: VERIFY EVERYTHING! If you see something, be it on the internet or indeed in print, go to other sources and verify before accepting it as the truth.

 

[AweMan]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

This is a very interesting thread. Mainly because I have the responsibility of introducing my students to the internet as a resource for scientific information and learning how to discriminate between what is "free speech" and what is legitimate information that can be used as sources in research. You would be surprised how many students will cite blog entries as legitimate sources.
I do not agree that ideas, thoughts or ideas should ever be censored...but it would be nice if sites gave some hints that the ideas expressed may be opinions and not factual. (I hate restricting them to .edu or .gov sites because there are many .com sites with accurate and good information)
I created a page on my site one year that explained in a very detailed way that the sky is blue because some guy named Harold rides his purple dinosaur and colors it every morning. It was obviously fake and trash, but once its out there, it would appear on search engines if you searched for "Why is the sky blue" Now, this is a simplistic way to show kids that what they read is not always true, but It did emphasize the point that "free speech" is not always "truth"

It`s quite refreshing to see that at least some teachers are teaching {think for yourself and verify all information before passing it on as fact!} Unlike the Indoctrination of some professors adjenda our young students of "Higher Learning institutions" are being taught these days, especialy in the areas of eocolgy, sociology, and politics. People in general have a tendency to believe without hesitation as to accuracy what they hear from what they perceive as authority, especialy young impressionable minds. In essence, NOT ENOUGH of us THINK FOR OURSELFS!
I better quit now before I get into trouble, if i`m not already there.

 

[Steve]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

It is not just the young, impressionable minds, IMHO.

I often visit the forums that MENSA have on their website. Now, considering that to be eligible one must have a very high IQ, I am constantly amazed at the drivel that some will repeat, parrot-fashion, as gospel truth when they have not made any attempt to verify that what they are repeating is accurate, and the articles that they quote in supporting their point of view are often typical news items that clearly reflect the political bias of the writer and are at best incomplete, not giving the whole story.

One can always find something that will support one's own point of view on any subject, whatever point of view may be, and whatever one's stance on that same subject is.

 

[NutmegCT]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

And if I may add my two pence worth: VERIFY EVERYTHING! If you see something, be it on the internet or indeed in print, go to other sources and verify before accepting it as the truth.

aw, c'mon ... that takes WORK! (what was it we used to day... trust, but verify?)

It`s quite refreshing to see that at least some teachers are teaching {think for yourself and verify all information before passing it on as fact!} Unlike the Indoctrination of some professors adjenda our young students of "Higher Learning institutions" are being taught these days, especialy in the areas of eocolgy, sociology, and politics. People in general have a tendency to believe without hesitation as to accuracy what they hear from what they perceive as authority, especialy young impressionable minds. In essence, NOT ENOUGH of us THINK FOR OURSELFS!
I better quit now before I get into trouble, if i`m not already there.

you know ... if folks were actually *required* to prove what they write, maybe then we'd take it more seriously. Instead of just copy/paste on something, also give the reference. Let the reader judge not just the paste, but the source too.

It is not just the young, impressionable minds, IMHO.

I often visit the forums that MENSA have on their website. Now, considering that to be eligible one must have a very high IQ, I am constantly amazed at the drivel that some will repeat, parrot-fashion, as gospel truth when they have not made any attempt to verify that what they are repeating is accurate, and the articles that they quote in supporting their point of view are often typical news items that clearly reflect the political bias of the writer and are at best incomplete, not giving the whole story.

One can always find something that will support one's own point of view on any subject, whatever point of view may be, and whatever one's stance on that same subject is.

Amen to that! Slightly on a tangent here, but how does MENSA determine membership? Is it still the old "upper 2% of IQ test scores"? We've learned in the last 20 or so years that intelligence isn't just the ability to use mathematical formulas, "untwist" geometrical shapes and memorize the definitions of words. There are dozens of "types" of intelligence. I'd bet there are also a lot of "high IQ" folks who don't check the sources for what they read, or verify the validity of texts and statements. IQ ain't horse sense.

Just my tuppence ...

T.
PS - if the 'net becomes the primary source of "information", then we're in a heap o' trouble if blind acceptance of "net postings" influences decisions.

 

[Basil]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

IQ ain't horse sense.

You can say that again. I work with a number of PhDs and some of them are not necessarily a wellspring of common sense. I don't want to paint with too broad a brush though. One guy in particular I work with - a retired Colonel and PhD Physicist - is one of the most brilliant men I've ever known. He can explain a very complex physics theory in such a way that just about anyone can grasp it - even if they don't understand all the integro-differential equations behind it. (He did teach physics at one time and I wish that I could have had him as an instructor).

 

[Steve]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

The MENSA entrance test is more solving puzzles, identifying word associations, that sort of thing. Not so much a test of what you know but how quickly you can process information and solve problems.

I agree 100%, it is no indicator of common sense, as evidenced by the posts that I have read from some of them. There are, as Basil mentions, some very bright people with a lot of common sense. There are also a great many without it. I only started learning common sense after I put on a uniform. Very steep learning curve there.....

 

[Basil]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

I read an interesting opinion article about information obtained from the web, in this case Wikipedia.

They made an excellent point: <span style="font-weight: bold">"What good is a stockpile of information if it’s unreliable and often incorrect, as many have said Wikipedia is?"</span>

I'll admit to having used Wikipedia, but only for fun, never for obtaining anything I'm serious about. It would not matter a hill of beans if the stuff I've gleaned from WP wasn't entirely accurate. It makes for some fun reading, but you have to take most of it with a grain of salt.

 

[Steve]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

That's my viewpoint on Wikipedia as well, if it's not accurate, then why do it?

 

[Tinster]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

The MENSA entrance test is more solving puzzles, identifying word associations, that sort of thing. Not so much a test of what you know but how quickly you can process information and solve problems.

I agree 100%, it is no indicator of common sense, as evidenced by the posts that I have read from some of them. There are, as Basil mentions, some very bright people with a lot of common sense. There are also a great many without it. I only started learning common sense after I put on a uniform. Very steep learning curve there.....

<span style="color: #006600">To the MOON, Alice!! Steve you are so on point with this one.
I went to a few Mensa meetings and was bored to tears. All under-achievers
crying in their beer about how "someday" they were gonna be famous.
All of them trying to impress each other with much drivel and nonsense.
Not a lick of common sense in the room--- after I left. je,je,je..

dale </span>

 

[Basil]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

The MENSA entrance test is more solving puzzles, identifying word associations, that sort of thing. Not so much a test of what you know but how quickly you can process information and solve problems.

I agree 100%, it is no indicator of common sense, as evidenced by the posts that I have read from some of them. There are, as Basil mentions, some very bright people with a lot of common sense. There are also a great many without it. I only started learning common sense after I put on a uniform. Very steep learning curve there.....

<span style="color: #006600">To the MOON, Alice!! Steve you are so on point with this one.
I went to a few Mensa meetings and was bored to tears. All under-achievers
crying in their beer about how "someday" they were gonna be famous.
All of them trying to impress each other with much drivel and nonsense.
Not a lick of common sense in the room--- after I left. je,je,je..

dale </span>

I had a room mate in the service who was a brilliant mathematician - but the boy had not an ounce of common sense...well, maybe an ounce.

 

[judow]

Re: "Free Speech" and the Internet

It is what it is. I have a great appreciation for what Basil has given us in this Forum, and I have no problem with how he regulates it, nor am I hesitant to voice that opinion. If that classifies me as a "kiss up", then so be it. Reguardless, I still say...Hurray for Basil, and what he has done here.

Larry Groft
New Market, Md.

Allow me to echo your sentiments. Thumbs up to :computer: