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What's great about this thread is the calmness of the discourse...nobody's taken it personally or gotten 'torqued'...nobody's taken their posts & gone home crying....its nowhere near being locked to deleted...& we're all learning, sharing our thoughts & even, gasp, disagreeing - amicably!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]How does ~abolishing~ the 16th Amendment sound, then?
[/QUOTE]

"The Congress shall have power to lay and collect taxes on incomes, from whatever source derived, without apportionment among the several States, and without regard to any census or enumeration."

Can I get an "AMEN" to that?
 
I seem to be encountering resistance from one of my friends that grew up in Michigan. He seems to think a flat income tax is the best way, and I'm having a difficult time to get him to even think about looking into the details of "Fair Tax" for himself.

*shrug* To each his own, I guess. Maybe it'll be different if I get the book at let his wife read it after I'm done...
 
I think the idea is fantastic but have 2 concerns.
First one being; if this is aimed at taxing sales (what you spend) would that encourage more of an underground blackmarket type economy? I haven't read it, so don't know if that is addressed.
Second, the reason why this will go nowhere, is because it makes sense; the average lay person can understand it, and live with it. The average lay person right now cannot understand the current tax laws, or cares to learn, and that works to the advantage of government. Besides, no government wishes to decrease the size of their bureaucracy, it's political suicide.
 
I figure the government works like our school district....If it makes sense and we understand it, its not the way we are going to do it!!
 
It is addressed, Barry... right now the "underground" economy is not filing with the gummint to disclose its income. With HR25 it doesn't MATTER: If the money's spent on goods or services it is THEN taxed just like the rest of us. Can't ~dodge~ an included tax! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif

BAZ said:
Second, the reason why this will go nowhere, is because it makes sense; the average lay person can understand it, and live with it. The average lay person right now cannot understand the current tax laws, or cares to learn, and that works to the advantage of government.
Click to expand...

"We the People" need to ~explain loudly and often~ to the representatives WE have in Congress that WE are in favour of HR25, and their bloody JOBS are up for grabs if they don't ~get that~. Spread that book around and see what kind of reaction ya get. Any idea HOW MUCH time and money is spent annually on tax law compliance by US citizens? It's outrageous.
 
And before ya say it, your accountant would MUCH rather manage your portfolio than do your tax return. Just ask 'im. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
Nunyas said:
I seem to be encountering resistance from one of my friends that grew up in Michigan. He seems to think a flat income tax is the best way, and I'm having a difficult time to get him to even think about looking into the details of "Fair Tax" for himself.

*shrug* To each his own, I guess. Maybe it'll be different if I get the book at let his wife read it after I'm done...
Click to expand...

*You* read it first, then do just that!! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif

Then read what/how the "flat" tax is structured... HooBoi.
 
I think the Fair Tax will take power away from the politicians in Washington & return it to "WE the People"

It will also make the US a tax haven for businesses from all around the world.

& there's a drastic difference between a 'flat tax' & the 'fair tax' - or a VAT for that matter.
 
Tony B. said:
I think the Fair Tax will take power away from the politicians in Washington & return it to "WE the People"
Click to expand...

Dunno if it'll be *that* big a change, but it's a (long overdue) start.
At least THEIR hands would be out of OUR pockets.
 
Main reason I would think that THEY would drag THEIR feet on it, unless we make it look like it'll cost 'em their jobs if'n they don't!
 
Gotta remember though that our legislators are mostly lawyers. How many tax lawyers would be put out of business by such a new tax law?

Even with the proposed "prerefund" it could still be hard on those of us retired with just Social Security for income. I have not had to dip into my IRA yet but we do spend a little more than the SS income. With the current system, I don't have to pay any tax as we fall below the personal exemptions and standard deductions and could even withdraw significant IRA money without being taxed. With the proposed system, a 30% or so sales tax would start to bite pretty deep. Now if they were to exempt certain essentials, such as groceries and drugs, making it more of a "luxury" tax instead of consumption tax then it would be good for me too and probably everyone.
 
Bayless said:
Gotta remember though that our legislators are mostly lawyers. How many tax lawyers would be put out of business by such a new tax law?

Even with the proposed "prerefund" it could still be hard on those of us retired with just Social Security for income. I have not had to dip into my IRA yet but we do spend a little more than the SS income. With the current system, I don't have to pay any tax as we fall below the personal exemptions and standard deductions and could even withdraw significant IRA money without being taxed. With the proposed system, a 30% or so sales tax would start to bite pretty deep. Now if they were to exempt certain essentials, such as groceries and drugs, making it more of a "luxury" tax instead of consumption tax then it would be good for me too and probably everyone.
Click to expand...

YOU need to now go get this book, Bayless. If after you've read it you can come back and present those same objections based on the studies and presentation, I'll buy it from you and publicly EAT the thing... and record it for a YouTube presentation.

DEAL?!?
 
bugimike said:
Main reason I would think that THEY would drag THEIR feet on it, unless we make it look like it'll cost 'em their jobs if'n they don't!
Click to expand...

Precisely. Write your representatives and let THEM know that. Ain't gonna be diff'rent unless it's a decision "explained" by an electorate.
 
Bayless - Doc is correct...lower income folks & people on social security will actually have more disposable income....&, if an item costs $100, that's all you'll pay - not $100 plus sales tax! Under the Fair Tax proposal, the taxes are figured into the cost of goods all along the manufacturing way so that, at the purchase point, they're actually less expensive.....

Starting next year, I'm gonna start taking my Social Security...& I plan on having no W-2 income, just Social Security, my retirement checks, my investments & rental income.....& I don't plan on touching my 401-K's or my 403-B's....& I'm all in favor of the Fair Tax.

I especially like the rebate for necessities...that, Bayless, is a check the government would send every household based on income to offset any built-in taxes for food, etc....that makes my disposable income go even further....under the Fair Tax, the politicians can no longer scare our senior citizens!

People who have known me for a long time know that the only money I have that isn't working for me (i.e., making me more money) is the cash in my pocket....everything else has to pay its way! .....& I've studied the book & Congressman Linder's proposal & the working document from the task force that developed the Fair Tax plan - I love it!

Like Doc said, ya gotta read the book.
 
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/savewave.gif

Tony!! You can be the "producer" of the YouTube clip if after he reads it he can still object based on what's posted above! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 
And then again, it just makes too much sense, and government does not seem to operate on that very much!!
 
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:]And then again, it just makes too much sense, and government does not seem to operate on that very much!! [/QUOTE]

Another "AMEN" moment!
 
Dang Doc, that's a strong endorsement. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/hammer.gif Seriously though, I was not actually complaining because I have not done the necessary research. I just wanted to point out a couple of potential pitfalls. I did spend several years self-employed and had to deal with the IRS more than once, in good times as well as bad. I have to agree that almost anything that does away with the (don't remember now how many) thousands of pages of tax code could not be anything but extremely good for the overall economy. And a tax on consumption certinly makes sense, besides being infinitely less complex. I guess I am enough of a skeptic to suspect that our elected legislators will cover themselves and their own and never pass any laws that will eliminate that many jobs, whether good for all or not.
 
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