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Fatal Midget Accident
- Thread starter spritenut
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vagt6
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DWeeB said:
Dweeb, I agree that it's "BS", but how do we stop it? What do you propose to stop or curtail it, then? Ideas??
It seems that long prison sentences will certainly take the offenders off the road, but only as long as they're in prision. Life prison sentences for vehicular homicide?? Probably not. Maybe it's simply a risk that we cannot avoid on today's highways. Maybe not . . .
What's your suggestion for stopping it?
dfwip
Senior Member
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I can tell you first hand there is no way to stop these problems.
I have been a Judge for over 15 years, and have probably sentenced
more than 5000 (yes, five thousand) drunk drivers. The ONLY guarantee
I will make all of you is that every one of them will drive again.
Legally??? Of course not. But what do we do? Life sentence for drunk
driving? No matter how long the sentence, eventually they will return to
the road. In Ohio, we take licenses, have mandatory jail, forfeit vehicles, install
special plates, use ignition interlocks, and mandate substance abuse treatment.
Effective? Please don't ask me...
Few things in my life have been more painful than listening to a young child who describes,
thru the sobbing, what it is like not having a mom or dad anymore. Believe me, if I could
I would give a drunk driver the same life sentence that some of them give other people (kids).
The simple truth is that we as a society must address substance abuse as aggressively as we
address other social ills. Until we do, stories like this one will continue.
I have been a Judge for over 15 years, and have probably sentenced
more than 5000 (yes, five thousand) drunk drivers. The ONLY guarantee
I will make all of you is that every one of them will drive again.
Legally??? Of course not. But what do we do? Life sentence for drunk
driving? No matter how long the sentence, eventually they will return to
the road. In Ohio, we take licenses, have mandatory jail, forfeit vehicles, install
special plates, use ignition interlocks, and mandate substance abuse treatment.
Effective? Please don't ask me...
Few things in my life have been more painful than listening to a young child who describes,
thru the sobbing, what it is like not having a mom or dad anymore. Believe me, if I could
I would give a drunk driver the same life sentence that some of them give other people (kids).
The simple truth is that we as a society must address substance abuse as aggressively as we
address other social ills. Until we do, stories like this one will continue.
DWeeB
Jedi Trainee
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vagt6 said:
My suggestion is the all DUI's are required to have a special license plate that flags them as an offender and every time their caught they get another big X on their plate so everyone could see and say something, also help people and cops to keep their eyes open. Can you imagine 18 XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX's someone would say something. If it was my neighbor I'd ask WTF is your peoblem. Or we could stone'm in the town square. Either one works for me.
lbc_newbie
Jedi Warrior
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I like the way you think,Dweeb... maybe we could also brand them with a hot iron, tatoo them, put GPS chips in them, and bar codes across their foreheads. I'm all for any one of these options. I really appreciate this discussion. My wife will be driving ours with our daughter quite often. I've been relaying your suggestions regarding visibility. Maybe I will keep the Cherry Bomb exhaust. "Loud pipes save lives."
regularman
Yoda
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That guy wasn't just drunk, he was wasted. The mass pike is an interstate highway, you got to work real hard to get on the wrong way. I hope the guy lives to pay that guy a visit and it won't be a social call. That guy is most likely already out of jail already.
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Hap Waldrop said:
Hap, you're right. This is the best advice so-far to do ~anything~ to counteract/avoid much of the tragedy.
If there were a more comprehensive set of TESTS for driver qualification it would go a long way to cutting down on that 50K+ highway deaths a year. A a mjority of folk think a driver's license is somehow a Constitutional right, or some kind of entitlement. REAL "driver training" should include all you've mentioned and more: "Check your oil and tire pressure, please." And: "Change the right rear tire, please." would be a couple things to add as qualifiers.
As for impared drivers, it ain't just alcohol... everything from prescription drugs to cell phones to disruptive behavior from kids are factors as well. Ultimately it's the driver's responsibility to be, ummm... responsible. Sad fact is (as the judge points out) there's just no way to keep a lot of folks from ignoring ANYthing they feel is inconvenient for them. No license? No problem... "I have KEYS." :madder:
regularman
Yoda
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Its sort of the same thing with motorcyles. I recommend that everybody who rides take a sport riders course. You might not like dragging your knees in the turns, but its real nice to know how to do it if you need to no matter what kind of bike you are on or how you like to ride. Situations dictate what you have to do and its nice to have options.
RickB
Yoda
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I totally agree with all you guys, having had enough experience in accidents for several lifetimes I have opinions about the subject.
Defensive driving is great, but sometimes you get stuck in traffic with cars and barriers all around you and you see a semi truck coming up behind and you can tell he just noticed traffic was stopped and is smoking all his tires and coming too fast.
So what do you do? What I did in that circumstance was to move over just about a foot, push down the E-brake as hard as possible and then as he only took off the right back corner of the van I was in I just waited until it was over. My car didn't hit any other cars because I was braced for impact and reduced the impact to more of a glancing blow by situating my car before the hit. How long did it take, I'm sure it was only a couple seconds from the time I saw him coming to the time he hit me.
Things will happen where you have very little you can do to mitigate disaster.
Sometimes that "very little" can make a big difference, thinking and doing it right when it's actually happening to you takes presence of mind, focus on the task at hand. Things you can't do if you have a phone pasted (or clipped) to your head or are otherwise engaged in something other than driving (even while sitting in traffic).
Two summers ago I was pulling onto a road with two lanes each way, I crossed over to the left and was in the inner of my two lanes when a Ford F350 came out to my right and proceeded across his lane into mine. You know how a F350 Dually Diesel truck dwarfs a Midget right? I laid on the brakes, locking up all 4 corners and the sound that came from my tires on dry pavement was better than any horn I could have had. The other driver finally noticed and corrected before hitting (and probably demolishing) me.
I know we all have stories like this, if we actually spend any time out there in our little cars among the unwashed masses.
I recently saw a sign I thought was weird in a small town not too far from here.
I've seen the signs "Please don't drink and drive" for many years. This place actually has signs by the road that say "Please don't drug and drive".
A sign of the times? You have no idea what those other guys out there are doing, literally.
Be safe! Sometimes that means be aggressive. I guarantee you more drivers out there notice me in my Midget because I drive with spirit than would if I were "keeping cool". I drive the thing every day, all four seasons. I don't want to become a grease spot on the highway. I agree it helps that I used to ride motorcycles on the freeway, I've kept that awareness while driving these little cars. It's just something I feel you have to do in order to survive.
Defensive driving is great, but sometimes you get stuck in traffic with cars and barriers all around you and you see a semi truck coming up behind and you can tell he just noticed traffic was stopped and is smoking all his tires and coming too fast.
So what do you do? What I did in that circumstance was to move over just about a foot, push down the E-brake as hard as possible and then as he only took off the right back corner of the van I was in I just waited until it was over. My car didn't hit any other cars because I was braced for impact and reduced the impact to more of a glancing blow by situating my car before the hit. How long did it take, I'm sure it was only a couple seconds from the time I saw him coming to the time he hit me.
Things will happen where you have very little you can do to mitigate disaster.
Sometimes that "very little" can make a big difference, thinking and doing it right when it's actually happening to you takes presence of mind, focus on the task at hand. Things you can't do if you have a phone pasted (or clipped) to your head or are otherwise engaged in something other than driving (even while sitting in traffic).
Two summers ago I was pulling onto a road with two lanes each way, I crossed over to the left and was in the inner of my two lanes when a Ford F350 came out to my right and proceeded across his lane into mine. You know how a F350 Dually Diesel truck dwarfs a Midget right? I laid on the brakes, locking up all 4 corners and the sound that came from my tires on dry pavement was better than any horn I could have had. The other driver finally noticed and corrected before hitting (and probably demolishing) me.
I know we all have stories like this, if we actually spend any time out there in our little cars among the unwashed masses.
I recently saw a sign I thought was weird in a small town not too far from here.
I've seen the signs "Please don't drink and drive" for many years. This place actually has signs by the road that say "Please don't drug and drive".
A sign of the times? You have no idea what those other guys out there are doing, literally.
Be safe! Sometimes that means be aggressive. I guarantee you more drivers out there notice me in my Midget because I drive with spirit than would if I were "keeping cool". I drive the thing every day, all four seasons. I don't want to become a grease spot on the highway. I agree it helps that I used to ride motorcycles on the freeway, I've kept that awareness while driving these little cars. It's just something I feel you have to do in order to survive.
G
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I heard on the radio last night some Korean chic finally passed her written drivers test here after taking close to NINE HUNDRED TIMES!!!!
She's taken it every day since '04 or '05 and paid close to $5,000 IIRC.
She hasn't taken the driving part yet.
Better batten down the hatches boys !!!!
Here it is, it was there not here.
https://news.aol.com/article/south-korean-woman-takes-written-drivers/755777
She's taken it every day since '04 or '05 and paid close to $5,000 IIRC.
She hasn't taken the driving part yet.
Better batten down the hatches boys !!!!
Here it is, it was there not here.
https://news.aol.com/article/south-korean-woman-takes-written-drivers/755777
regularman
Yoda
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One other thing that would help is we have a lack of real mass transit in anything but a big city. I don't care how drunk they get if they ride the train.
Steve P.
Jedi Hopeful
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This is very sad and is a good reminder for all of us
that we need to be careful out there.
This reminds me of a local ad I answered many years
ago; "Austin-Healey 3000 parts car for sale".
When I went to see the car, it was badly mangled. The seller
(owners Dad) told me his son had restored the car and
took his girl friend out for its first drive. And
wrapped it around a telephone pole. The car was bent
into an "L" shape. Both died in the accident.
Dried blood everywhere. I'll never get that picture
out of my head. No, I did not buy the car....
Steve
that we need to be careful out there.
This reminds me of a local ad I answered many years
ago; "Austin-Healey 3000 parts car for sale".
When I went to see the car, it was badly mangled. The seller
(owners Dad) told me his son had restored the car and
took his girl friend out for its first drive. And
wrapped it around a telephone pole. The car was bent
into an "L" shape. Both died in the accident.
Dried blood everywhere. I'll never get that picture
out of my head. No, I did not buy the car....
Steve
AngliaGT
Great Pumpkin
Offline
I went & looked at a MKI Cortina.They were asking
$200.The hood was dented,the winshield broken,& above the
windshield there was a dent.Seems that the owner was drunk
& hit a bicyclist who was training for a race.He ended up
paralyzed,& she ended up going to prison.And no,I didn't
buy it.
- Doug
$200.The hood was dented,the winshield broken,& above the
windshield there was a dent.Seems that the owner was drunk
& hit a bicyclist who was training for a race.He ended up
paralyzed,& she ended up going to prison.And no,I didn't
buy it.
- Doug
B
Big6Mark
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This is someting that continues to go out of control. Have seen and heard of these stupid drunks for too long.
In the '80s my wife worked with a young man whos father-in-law was hit by a drunk while riding his bicycle. darn jerk had all his assets transferred to his mother so he wouldn't have to pay any reparations to the victim. Heard he joked about it in the bars later.
Just a couple of years ago a former member of our local Willamette MG Club was hit broadside in her Audi A4 by a drunk evading the cops. Driving with his lights off he came out of an alley fast. She held on for a week before passing. She was a nurse.
Too many other instances of people I don't know.
State Police also found about ten years ago that many times they pull someone over on suspicion of diving impared and they don't have any evidence of alcohol, there is a high probability the driver is on illegal grugs instead.
Maybe its time a large, LOUD, group of citizens showed up for any and all of the court appearances of the stupid drunks and made it clear that this will not happen again. Baseball bats and tire irons might get the point across. Annonymous phone calls to the family at all hours of the day to get the family to understand the concequences couldn't hurt either.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a nice, quiet, peaceful guy. I just think something has to change and someone needs to get the attention of the drunks in a way they might remember.
Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. And we enjoy that privilege more in our cars than most. I just don't want to be the next statistic.
C Ya,
Mark
We miss you Betty.
In the '80s my wife worked with a young man whos father-in-law was hit by a drunk while riding his bicycle. darn jerk had all his assets transferred to his mother so he wouldn't have to pay any reparations to the victim. Heard he joked about it in the bars later.
Just a couple of years ago a former member of our local Willamette MG Club was hit broadside in her Audi A4 by a drunk evading the cops. Driving with his lights off he came out of an alley fast. She held on for a week before passing. She was a nurse.
Too many other instances of people I don't know.
State Police also found about ten years ago that many times they pull someone over on suspicion of diving impared and they don't have any evidence of alcohol, there is a high probability the driver is on illegal grugs instead.
Maybe its time a large, LOUD, group of citizens showed up for any and all of the court appearances of the stupid drunks and made it clear that this will not happen again. Baseball bats and tire irons might get the point across. Annonymous phone calls to the family at all hours of the day to get the family to understand the concequences couldn't hurt either.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a nice, quiet, peaceful guy. I just think something has to change and someone needs to get the attention of the drunks in a way they might remember.
Driving a car is a privilege, not a right. And we enjoy that privilege more in our cars than most. I just don't want to be the next statistic.
C Ya,
Mark
We miss you Betty.
smaceng
Jedi Knight
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As a transportation forensic engineer, I've seen many types of accidents. Some can be avoided with better education, some can be avoided by luck and others just are. We have to remember, as the motorcyclists do, that our cars will always lose based on the laws of momentum. The big car hits us and we take off like a shot, with a greater increase in speed. So what can we do? Driving defensively, drive smart (not like I did as a young foolish kid), wear a seatbelt or whatever safety gear the car came with.
The one accident that still gets to me is one where three 30 year olds in a PU had just been draining the free booze at the Tahoe gambling house. They crossed over the double line and hit the dad, the son and daughter in the SUV. As the driver, the dad did not have a chance at surviving and he was wearing his seatbelt. The kids didn't make it either, and neither was wearing a seatbelt. One can not always stop what the other crazy person did, but one has to take all means necessary to protect one's self. That means seatbelts, car seats, whatever gear available to increase the odds in your favor.
Was drinking the cause of the accident. Without a doubt. I believe the two kids would have a very good chance of surviving if they had been belted up.
Scott in CA
The one accident that still gets to me is one where three 30 year olds in a PU had just been draining the free booze at the Tahoe gambling house. They crossed over the double line and hit the dad, the son and daughter in the SUV. As the driver, the dad did not have a chance at surviving and he was wearing his seatbelt. The kids didn't make it either, and neither was wearing a seatbelt. One can not always stop what the other crazy person did, but one has to take all means necessary to protect one's self. That means seatbelts, car seats, whatever gear available to increase the odds in your favor.
Was drinking the cause of the accident. Without a doubt. I believe the two kids would have a very good chance of surviving if they had been belted up.
Scott in CA
Offline
Was determined to stay out of this conversation because I didn't have a strong need to repeat what was already said. As someone who has buried children killed by drunk drivers and sat with their families at funeral homes and hospitals, I am reminded of something I heard years ago - was actually about violence toward women, but just as true here. Zero tolerance is not about stronger sentences, or better enforcement, zero tolerance is when, we as a society refuse to accept it any longer. I'm not a fan of temperance, like my beer too much - but, as long as it's OK for gambling houses to pour free booze down gullets or tailgate parties to be about quantity or unwinding after work being about 2 fir 1 drinks at happy hour AND people stand by silently as others walk out of bars/ casinos/ football games etc. impaired, this is not going to go away.
Zero tolerance is not about the police, it's about the citizenry.
Zero tolerance is not about the police, it's about the citizenry.
D
Deleted member 8987
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Carefully posting so not to get "political", but law-yahs are the problem.
They find the loopholes to get these aXXwipes off, get breathalyzers banned from the hearing, removing any and all stigma.
Someone mentioned special plates.
We had that here.
They scraped the year tag off your plates and put this reflective black and white striped tag on.
Law-yahs didn't like that....."different", "cruel and unusual".
That lasted 3-6 months and was gone.
(they do the same thing every time some new law is passed to curtail "paper hanging", or bad check writing.......and the laws are challenged, and pitched, in 3-6 months).
I buried a brother nailed by a drunk, left a veteran's organization when a fellow vet started in on a brunken speech, admitted he had been drinking ON THE DRIVE UP, and while at the VFW, and the SOB was going to drive home.
Solution?
We aren't supposed to say.
But I have one.
And the Glasers for it.
They find the loopholes to get these aXXwipes off, get breathalyzers banned from the hearing, removing any and all stigma.
Someone mentioned special plates.
We had that here.
They scraped the year tag off your plates and put this reflective black and white striped tag on.
Law-yahs didn't like that....."different", "cruel and unusual".
That lasted 3-6 months and was gone.
(they do the same thing every time some new law is passed to curtail "paper hanging", or bad check writing.......and the laws are challenged, and pitched, in 3-6 months).
I buried a brother nailed by a drunk, left a veteran's organization when a fellow vet started in on a brunken speech, admitted he had been drinking ON THE DRIVE UP, and while at the VFW, and the SOB was going to drive home.
Solution?
We aren't supposed to say.
But I have one.
And the Glasers for it.
jvandyke
Luke Skywalker
Offline
I think:
first offense: lose license for 6 months (everyone screws up once)
2nd offense: lose license for life
ever caught behind the wheel of anything again (drunk or sober) jail for 20 years minimum.
If a DWI at anytime causes injury or death go immediately to step 3.
Mandatory sentencing.
first offense: lose license for 6 months (everyone screws up once)
2nd offense: lose license for life
ever caught behind the wheel of anything again (drunk or sober) jail for 20 years minimum.
If a DWI at anytime causes injury or death go immediately to step 3.
Mandatory sentencing.
Silverghost
Yoda
Offline
AngliaGT said:
Same thing here...found a car I was initially very interested in, then the path lead me to a similar end with a significant connection to the BCF. I also did not buy it.