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MGB-GT Facet vs SU fuel pumps

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drooartz

drooartz

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So one task while I have the rear axle out of the GT is to sort out the fuel delivery system. The car currently has a plastic Facet (or similar) fuel pump that is poorly mounted. The hard fuel line from the tank was cut and there is fuel hose running from that to the pump. It's all a little messy.

So do I use another Facet or switch back to a solid-state SU? Thoughts, comments?
 
Here's my non-scientific opinion on Facet pumps.
Remember, Facet seems to be a type, all sorts of them out there.
My SU pump on the Jag quit. Well, the diaphragm became somewhat porous, fuel leaking out the sides of the rubber.
I stuck a Facet in. Been there a long time.
Works well, but:
It seems there is no check valve in my Facet to keep line pressure from bleeding back into the tank.
Result is, I have a starting sequence. Get in, key on, wait while I get the belt and harness on (usually hanging out the door), close the door, handbrake on, neutral, listen, if the Facet has slowed, press the start button, sometimes a stroke or two on the loud pedal (yes, I have twin accelerator pumps), and it lights off.
I've researched in-line check valves, haven't made up my mind to do anything about it yet.
The SU was fully rebuilt and never fueled, in a ziplock in the boot in case the Facet ever strands me.
If you do swap out the pumps, save the Facet and all hardware in a ziplock baggie..just in case.
Order your SU pump for the correct ground for your car.
Mine was originally positively earthed, when they swapped it over and installed an alternator in Singapore, they never addressed the pump, and there is a nice, round, melted hole in the plastic cover.
Dave
 
Drew - The plastic pump you have is not a Facet pump. It is at best the newer ECCO pump or at the worst the old AutoPulse (or some similar) name. If the old AutoPulse pump, very carefully carefully remove it and throw it as far as you can - it will eventually start leaking and cause all sorts of problems. If the pump is the newer ECCO pump, it is a toss up as far as I am concerned. The president of the company has assured me that they have corrected the problem IF one uses the plastic fittings that they supply with the pump. They will not guarantee the pump is used with the original, metal fittings. Personally, I would go with the OEM all electronic, SU fuel pump (AZX1307EN or EP depending on the polarity of the car) or the AZX 1307 dual polarity, points style pump. That said, for half the price you can get one of the little square, run all the time, make a lot of noise pumps (which if mounted on the sound mounts used on the Midget exhaust will exclude all the noise from the passenger compartment). The Facet pumps are very reliable pumps once they are mounted correctly.

Dave - The Facet pumps do have check valves in them, but they also have a bypass valve, which causes them to run all the time (thus my derisive label - 'little square, run all the time, make a lot of noise'). They literally run all the time whether they are pump fuel into an empty float chamber of a carburetor AND they continue to run after the float chamber is full and the needle valve has shut off any fuel flow. If you listen to them closely, you will note a slight in tone when the float chamber is full. Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with Facet pump in your car - it is operating just fine.

"Order your SU pump for the correct ground for your car.
Mine was originally positively earthed, when they swapped it over and installed an alternator in Singapore, they never addressed the pump, and there is a nice, round, melted hole in the plastic cover."

That hole was the result of the people doing the polarity conversion not changing out the diode/resistor assembly used for arc suppression across the points to the one for the changed polarity - whenpower was applied, it didn't take long for the diode/resistor assembly to burn out, burning a hole in the end cover.
Cheers,
 
David_DuBois said:
Drew - The plastic pump you have is not a Facet pump. It is at best the newer ECCO pump or at the worst the old AutoPulse (or some similar) name. If the old AutoPulse pump, very carefully carefully remove it and throw it as far as you can - it will eventually start leaking and cause all sorts of problems. If the pump is the newer ECCO pump, it is a toss up as far as I am concerned. The president of the company has assured me that they have corrected the problem IF one uses the plastic fittings that they supply with the pump. They will not guarantee the pump is used with the original, metal fittings. Personally, I would go with the OEM all electronic, SU fuel pump (AZX1307EN or EP depending on the polarity of the car) or the AZX 1307 dual polarity, points style pump. That said, for half the price you can get one of the little square, run all the time, make a lot of noise pumps (which if mounted on the sound mounts used on the Midget exhaust will exclude all the noise from the passenger compartment). The Facet pumps are very reliable pumps once they are mounted correctly.

Dave - The Facet pumps do have check valves in them, but they also have a bypass valve, which causes them to run all the time (thus my derisive label - 'little square, run all the time, make a lot of noise'). They literally run all the time whether they are pump fuel into an empty float chamber of a carburetor AND they continue to run after the float chamber is full and the needle valve has shut off any fuel flow. If you listen to them closely, you will note a slight in tone when the float chamber is full. Bottom line, there is nothing wrong with Facet pump in your car - it is operating just fine.

"Order your SU pump for the correct ground for your car.
Mine was originally positively earthed, when they swapped it over and installed an alternator in Singapore, they never addressed the pump, and there is a nice, round, melted hole in the plastic cover."

That hole was the result of the people doing the polarity conversion not changing out the diode/resistor assembly used for arc suppression across the points to the one for the changed polarity - whenpower was applied, it didn't take long for the diode/resistor assembly to burn out, burning a hole in the end cover.
Cheers,
Click to expand...

Oh, I know exactly why that hole is there. I ordered a negative earth kit. My metal Facet bleeds off pressure from the minute you turn the key off. You can hear when it builds pressure up.
Changes pitch radically.
Done this since new, and I even had them give me another thinking there was a problem.
 
Thanks for the information, Dave.

My preference would be go to back to the OEM setup (with the non-points SU) but I think that for cost and time reasons I'm going to put in a Facet cube pump for now -- especially as my hard lines have been cut so there's some massaging to do to get everything lined up. Looks like an MGB transmission mount has the right hole pattern to mount the Facet, easy enough to acquire.
 
On your car, Drew, I would HIGHLY recommend you mount it to the rear, nearer the tank. The original was back there on the right side, just outside the battery box. A couple VW radiator Iso-mounts (rubber "bobbins" with a 6 or 8mm stud at each end) to attach it to the mount points.
 
Will do, Doc. The current replacement pump is in that same location, just not mounted well at all -- some PO just twisted the SU pump bracket to sorta-work.

I've heard that the MGB transmission mount (413-070) is the right bolt pattern for the Facet and gives a single stud to mount it to the car. Probably will bolt it to the battery box frame in that basic location.
 
drooartz said:
Will do, Doc. The current replacement pump is in that same location, just not mounted well at all -- some PO just twisted the SU pump bracket to sorta-work.

I've heard that the MGB transmission mount (413-070) is the right bolt pattern for the Facet and gives a single stud to mount it to the car. Probably will bolt it to the battery box frame in that basic location.
Click to expand...

Can`t quite visualize the anatomy of a B, but, it strikes me that putting something that can spark (lake a battery) near something that can explode (like a fuel line) might not be the very best location. And yes, I know the pump itself is electric, but the chance of actual sparking is much greater at the battery.
 
That's the factory location, JP. May seem strange, but it did work for half a million MGBs. :grin:

My car has a plastic battery box liner now (as many do) so that provides a bit of extra separation.
 
Thanks for the source tip, Elliot.
 
Drew - You can also get them at your local NAPA store. The following p/n's will work fine on the MGB: 40104; 40171*; 40178*; 40217*; 40254; 60104; 60300; 40002E; 477060E; 40258E. The three with the asterisk behind the number are the preferred ones, with an output pressure of 3.5psi. All the rest have an output pressure of 4psi, which is a bit on the high side, but should work ok.
Cheers,
 
Drew, about a year ago I installed an Airtex ATX E8016S fuel pump in lieu of the SU pump in my MGA. I believe it had a 2.5 to 4.5 PSI rating. There was one with a higher psi rating if that is what you need.

Clicks all the time, so I know it is running.

Initially I was positive ground, but a few weeks ago converted to negative ground. Just had to reverse the wires. I bought from Rock Auto.com for $36.79 and shipping was about $7.00.

I believe it is the Airtex unit that sells under the other names, including Facet and probably NAPA. Google the part number that you need and you should come up with all the same pumps under different names and can then go with the least expensive. I found the Airtex by Googling "E8016S".
 
Thanks for the pump info. Wound up going with a Facet with the correct pressure.

At some point in the future I'd like to go back to a solid-state SU and use the Facet as an inline backup, but for now this should provide reliable service.
 
I had a Facet clickety-pump on my Bugeye, mounted in the rear near the tank. I have another one in my Porsche, also mounted near the tank. I mounted them on rubber mounts, made by dissecting rubber bottle stoppers. They still make noise, but the car noise drowns it out. I never hear (or, in the case of the Bugeye, heard) it while driving. I used a regulator to keep the pressure around 2 PSI at the carbs.

In the Porsche, I used a higher-pressure pump, 6-8 PSI if I remember correctly, with a Holley pressure regulator to bring it down to 2.5 PSI at the carbs. I did this to keep a decent pressure drop across the regulator, which is necessary for it to work well, and to help minimize fuel boiling by having a little higher pressure in the fuel line. I'm quite happy with this setup. I have a pressure gauge permanently mounted at the regulator, and it the pressure does not vary at all; I have not had to readjust it.

Here is the story of the Porsche setup: https://www.nonlintec.com/porsche/fuel/

I'll keep the SU on the TD, but only for aesthetic reasons. I may convert it to electronic operation.

I think this is one of those cases where you probably can't make a bad decision. Either option should work well, so it comes down to your own sense of what you want to look at when you open the hood.
 
Got the fuel pump mounted and the lines run today. After this picture was taken I wound up shortening the line from the tank to the pump -- it was hanging down farther than it should. Tested it out and it pumps fuel!

It's a much cleaner install now, everything reasonably tucked up and out of the way. It should do the job.

fuelpumpdone.jpg
 
When the Australian electric fuel pump in my MGB roadster died, I replaced with a Facet. Looks exactly like your setup.

My Spridget race car has had the same Facet for at least 12 years. No problem.

My "new" A35 racer has a Facet also.

I bought an ECCO plastic pump for my street 948 Midget last year. Lasted about 8 months. I just ordered a Facet for it.

They are "tickey" little buggers but they seem to work well.
 
I had no idea there were so many Facet variations until I looked at the site Elliot posted.:crazyeyes:
I'm guessing #40171 is a good (best?) choice for a Sprite/1275... Thoughts?
 
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I really should check the part number on mine. In the interest of simplicity I wound up getting my pump from Moss -- more expensive but it's the right one.
 
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