• Hi Guest!
    You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
    There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Tips
Tips

engineering question

Share this page

JPSmit

JPSmit

Moderator
Staff member
Silver
Country flag
Offline
Completely Hypothetical!!!

was puttering around the house today and got to thinking about the garage. If you look at the attached picture you will see that I have a post right in the middle of the garage.

The garage itself is about 16 X 16 and there is an apartment over it.

There is not a ton of ceiling height as it, but, engineers, how would I calculate how big a beam I would need should I want to get rid of the post? Either wood or an I beam. Obviously in real life I would get an engineer in and do it properly, I don't want to mess with that, but, ballpark.

any ideas?

I was also thinking that I could presumably put a hoist on an I beam - would that work?

garage 1.JPG
 
how would I calculate how big a beam I would need ...?

I think a municipal engineer and/or building inspector should be called in! Way too many variables to guess at, especially with property - and life - in the balance!

And a hoist would be *very* limited in vertical movement.

Non-engineer Tom.

 
I won't offer any engineering estimates, but I will say - Don't hire O'Reilly!

 
I'm a Chemical Engineer, so I was intrigued by your title, but you will need a Civil or Structural Engineer to answer your question.

If you use a horizontal I-beam, it becomes a crane, which is good for removing engines and transmissions, but not lifting cars.
 
Wood?!? Naahh. Span is too long. An I-beam and braced from both ends vertically with same. I wouldn't trust concrete block walls to bear the load. But that's coming from a dilettante engineer, so...
 
DrEntropy said:
Wood?!? Naahh. Span is too long. An I-beam and braced from both ends vertically with same. I wouldn't trust concrete block walls to bear the load. But that's coming from a dilettante engineer, so...
Click to expand...

My thoughts too - and, I feel like wood would end up being to thick (remembering how low the ceiling is)
 
Per others: it's not just about the size of the beam (steel best) but what sort of footings would it sit on. There will be much more focused load on the side walls with a single beam. Yeah, you could probably just beef up the jack-studs there, but I'd be inclined to get an engineer too (and you'll surely have to if you get a permit).
 
Call Mike Holmes! :highly_amused:
 
Doc and Mark are correct. The material of the beam and the footings will be of the upmost importance in this build. Personally I would consider replacing the column with a piece of heavy pipe. What kind of load are we talking about this having to bear? What is the spacing of the studs in the apartment, what kind of appliances does the apartment have, what grade plywood is the floor, what kind of siding does it have? All of these things add up. The load is the deciding factor in what you need. If you replace the column with a beam I would use an I beam frame that is bolted into the concrete of the floor. Possibly even two evenly spaced through the garage.
 
JP, Before anything is done, you must know how much weight is resting on the column you have now and what is above it, load-bearing walls for one. Is the house plaster or sheetrock? Any deflection in the vertical position of the walls will crack plaster and also sheetrock in the joints. I would not use steel beams without knowing how much pressure is on the column now because a steel beam must have a deflection correction built into it that causes it to become straight after the total weight is put on it. I would use heavy gauge steel floor Joyce as they don't deflect as much as a solid beam. 40 years in heavy construction experience speaking. Put up many, many steel buildings and high rises. An adjustable Lally column would take up less room and still support what you have.
Now with all that said, I wouldn't touch it without an engineer looking at it first and the overall cost might be a little much to bear. PJ
 
Rent out the garage space and use the funds to pay for a bigger garage space for your cars.
No modification required! :encouragement:
 
Last edited:
PAUL161 said:
JP, Before anything is done, you must know how much weight is resting on the column you have now and what is above it, load-bearing walls for one. Is the house plaster or sheetrock? Any deflection in the vertical position of the walls will crack plaster and also sheetrock in the joints. I would not use steel beams without knowing how much pressure is on the column now because a steel beam must have a deflection correction built into it that causes it to become straight after the total weight is put on it. I would use heavy gauge steel floor Joyce as they don't deflect as much as a solid beam. 40 years in heavy construction experience speaking. Put up many, many steel buildings and high rises. An adjustable Lally column would take up less room and still support what you have.
Now with all that said, I wouldn't touch it without an engineer looking at it first and the overall cost might be a little much to bear. PJ
Click to expand...

thanks all! and to be clear when I say hypothetical, I mean hypothetical. This I wouldn't touch without an engineer. Just trying to think whether it is worth it. (and doable)

Doc, Mike Holmes makes me crazy! Watching makes me realize that in the entire history of the world, not a single building has ever been constructed correctly until he came along. :rolleyes:
 
I am an engineer, just not the civil sort.

Perhaps you could, instead of one massive beam, run a bunch of smaller joists. The span does not seem huge, especially if you use composite wood beams. This has the added benefit of (1) not creating a large point load at the end of s single beam, and (2) less reduction in ceiling height (albeit across the entire garage).

Crane, you could use a chain hoist, attached where needed.

Just some thoughts from an aerospace enginerd.
 
That's it! Aerospace materials. More beams, vertically braced, all carbon fiber! :smirk:
 
mikephillips said:
There's always duct tape, the handyman's secret weapon...

View attachment 57838
Click to expand...

If they can't find you handsome! at least let them find you handy. :grin:

BTW, single story apartment on 2X10 joists on 16 inch centres. 1 24" stove and one 24" fridge. Used to be a one bedroom but someone took out the dividing wall, hardwood floor and presumably and softwood T&G subfloor. Walls are drywall or at least the 1949 version of drywall.
 
Where I'm at 2X12 joists, 12" on center (unless engineered products) now required for similar.​
 
Last edited:
I don't know what the construction standards were where you live in 49 but around here drywall was just starting to be used in houses and a lot still used lath and plaster for interior walls.
 
pdplot said:
My house was built in 1950 and has both sheetrock and plaster walls.
Click to expand...

that's sort of what it is - but it is more of a sheetrock on top of a kind of fibreboard that in some ways is like cardboard.
 
Back
Top