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Engine noise help

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Bearings...except a pan drop and full bearing inspection.
Distributor....spring loose in advance....cap not seated....something down the throat laying on top of the piston....except one noise per flash which is more along the lines of valve train and distributor.
I'd be leaning towards pulling the cap, inspecting for something loose, pulling the distributor, marking rotor and advance locations first, spinning the distributor by hand and seeing.....look at the drive.....
 
Puzzler. This will hurt a bit...

Pull it.

Hurt me to type it. But, yeah, pull it.

You gotta take a look in there. If you have bad cam wear, you will need to clean the block anyways.

Did the PO you have to notch the front of the oil pan to mount the engine?
 
Rick....I removed all the bearing caps (rods & mains) and the bearings look near new.....very little to no wear, so I don't think it's the bearings.

Morris.....I have run it without the valve cover (the engone now has an oily sheen!) and the noise is still there. Thanks......I love the looks of the A15 too. It looks like it belongs, especially with the twin carbs.

TOC.....bearings checked out. I also did remove the distributor and didn't notice anything out of the ordinary. I'll pop it out again to double check it (it's a fairly new distributor.....maybe a year old) . Cap has been off & on numerous times....nothing rubbing or hitting the inside, but will double check that as well.

58Custom.....I'm going to remove the cam & lifters with the engine still in the car. I really don't want to pull the engine out again if I can help it. When I dropped the pan there wasn't anything "extra" in the bottom. No metal shavings or other stuff.....obviously if the cam is shredded I'll get the block cleaned out 9which means pulling it out of the car again....ugh.)

The previous owner notched the front of the oil pan to clear the lower frame cross brace. The alternative would have been to notch the frame, but I like this idea better. With the oil filter relocation kit and HUGE oil filter there is no loss of volume (still ~4 quarts). I'll see about posting some pictures of it.


Thanks for the thoughts guys.....it's nice to get second and third opinions.
 
We have had my A15 out about 5 times now.
It needs new rings, smokes pretty bad on startup.
It didn't do this before replacing the head - but the old one was lower compression than the new one so it started burning some oil due to higher compression with the same old rings.
Another engine pull in it's future - or I find another A14 or A15 engine to rebuild and then just swap them.
 
Considering what you have done, Mike, would it be possible to have the flywheel reassemmbled with something in the recess that caused the flywheel to be tilting just a bit and a section of it rubbing as it rotates?
Seems unlikely that it should suddenly be something inside the engine when all you changed was the rear seal and pan gasket.

Kurt.
 
I've listened to the video/audio clip carefully, thought about it, and it isn't a lower end thunk you would normally hear. Maybe pan baffle, but not likely, as you'd have seen witness marks when you had the pan off. Do me a favor....pull the fan belt and try it again. The front trans plate is the thick one, right, as in what 3/16" thick or so? No inspection covers?
Once you take the motor out, all troubleshooting changes to forensics. totally different can of worms.....always better to determine what the noise is before teardown if you can. I can't say I've ever heard a solid lifter make that noise. Hydraulics, yes, but not a solid.
 
I wonder if the little steel baffle inside the block has come loose. I have not taken mine out yet since I have only just stripped the block and took measurements of the crank, pistons and bores (needs overbore, polish crank and return with new bearings). If you pull the pan you should be able to check it.

If you run through the rocker clearances you can determine the soundness of the cam & lifters.

I have twice broken the skirt off a piston. This lets the piston cock in the bore a bit and smack the head. Makes a sound like a loose rod.

I feel bad for you but I can't wait to know what went wrong. You guys know what I mean? I hope it's minor.
 
He ran the valves already...no difference. Had the pan off again, checked the baffles, and no parts in the pan, so no skirt floating around.
Tom, did you listen to the video posted in first post?
 
TOC said:
He ran the valves already...no difference. Had the pan off again, checked the baffles, and no parts in the pan, so no skirt floating around.
Tom, did you listen to the video posted in first post?
Click to expand...

Actually it's a fair question to ask me if I read all of the posts, as it is obvious I did not. Sorry. But, yeah, I did hear that noise and it's a substantial noise. Like nut in the bore noise. I do perceive it as being every revolution, but I know OP thinks it syncs with his timing light and he's right there.

Odd that it started all of the sudden with the minor repairs he made. I made a few suggestions and now I am out of ideas that are not far fetched. I hate it when I hear noises like that. :eeek:

I think I will sit down now and watch.
 
I just listened again- Mike, are you sure that it is not just an exhaust leak at the head? Or a broken exh manifold flange?
BillM
 
Hate to be the bearer of more bad news but you can't pull the cam on that engine without inverting it. Lifters come out the bottom and dont give any access that I know of to get a hold of them and hold them up. Maybe you can figure out something from the bottom. If you do I'd definetly be interested since I'm running a A15 that could use a better cam.

Kurt.
 
I'd still carefully go over everything you did before I would go looking for something that mysteriously happened inside the engine. Your ear can decieve you sometimes.

Kurt.
 
mrsprite said:
Listen to the video and give me your opinions/ideas.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9J-IlIKCZoA
Click to expand...

Mike, I don't know if you added this later or I missed it the first time, but it's definitely a mechanical noise and it sounds to me like once per rev. I have a question for you...

Did you notch the bell housing to make room to install under the heater plenum? If so, did you cover the hole w/any sort of patch?
 
Wow....lots of replies. Thanks again....the reason I posted this was to brainstorm with other people and get different perspectives. It really helps me think.


Rick....good luck with your rebuild. I think we're tied for number of times removing the engine. It's been a couple of years since I've had to do it. I think I yanked it out 3 or 4 times within the first 18 months I owned it! I found a place in Utah that sells rebuild parts....I haven't called to see if they actually stock the stuff though, but here ya go: https://www.cleggengine.com

nomad.....anything's possible but I can't see how that could happen. Obviously I would have to pull the engine out to see.

TOC.....the engine to trans plate is about 3/16" and you are correct, there is no inspection cover. I will pull the belt off again tomorrow and see what happens.

58Custom.....I didn't notice anything loose or broken when I dropped the pan, but anything is possible. I can't wait to find out what it is either! :smile:

Billm.....the flange is pretty substantial, so I can't see how I ciuld have broken it, but who knows? The studs are new as is the gasket, so I don't think it's leaking, but again......who knows. I may pull off the exhaust and intake to take a look at the valves while cranking the engine over (and to check the gasket & exhaust flange).

nomad.....I have my ways! I actually installed a cam & lifters in that engine about 3 or 4 years ago. It was a PITA, but with enough assembly lube the lifters will stay in their bore until you push the cam in place. I had to literally install one lifter at a time push the cam just far enough to hold it and repeat.

Gerard.....no notches in the bell housing.....it clears the heater shelf with room to spare.



I went out tonight to take another look/listen and I'm thinking that it is eminating from the front of the engine moreso than the rear. There is one thing that may be wrong that just occured to me. The oil slinger on the end of the crank under the timing cover. There is a possibility that I installed it backwards. I usually have pretty good recall of what I work on (can picture it in my head), but for the life of me I can't "see" myself putting that thing on. I know that I removed it when I replaced the timing cover. i suppose it could be hitting the timing cover. At this point it's teh only thing that makes sense to me. I'll have to think some more on that since it involves dropping the pan and tining cover to inspect.

Off to bed.....again, I appreciate the ideas.
 
mrsprite said:
Gerard.....no notches in the bell housing.....it clears the heater shelf with room to spare.


The oil slinger on the end of the crank under the timing cover.

Off to bed.....again, I appreciate the ideas.
Click to expand...

Hi Mike,

The reason I asked is that I had a Morris van with the same complete drivetrain. In the Morris, a notched bell housing is imperative. Someone else had done the installation and had formed a sloppy patch. The first time I started it up, it made a very similar noise, though a bit worse. It was from the pressure plate striking the patch.

Your oil thrower idea sounds like a possibility. If I get any more ideas, I'll let you know.
 
Sounds internal but not like rod to me. Not solid enough. Maybe a PP bolt hitting the block? We cut inspection holes in the bellhousings on the race cars w/ a hole saw to keep and eye one things. Bent dip stick? Pull it out and see.
 
OK.....I decided to drop the pan & pull the timing cover today. The oil slinger was positioned correctly and was not rubbing on anything. At this point I figured pulling the camshaft was the next move......I was halfway there anyway. I couldn't see anything obviously wrong with the cam or lifters, but the cam bearings looked a bit rough. Then I noticed some rub marks between the cam lobes....then I looked inside the block and sure enough, there are rub marks on the rods. I'm not sure if the rub marks correlate with each other.....I called it a night, but will look things over more closely tomorrow. I'll probably pop the cam back in (sans lifters) and rotate it aa few times to see what happens.

Either way a new cam & lifters will be installed, along with new cam bearings.
 
Mike: Curious as to your source for a good cam for these engines. I haven't had much luck in finding one. Most of the source's are no longer offering anything or are out of business.

Kurt.
 
I'm going to have to have a think about this. You're telling me the connecting rods are hitting the camshaft?
Man.
I cannot recall them even being close enough to have that issue.
If the cam bearings are shot, usually first indicator is oil pressure goes away, yet you have good oil pressure.
 
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