• Hey Guest!
    British Car Forum has been supporting enthusiasts for over 25 years by providing a great place to share our love for British cars. You can support our efforts by upgrading your membership for less than the dues of most car clubs. There are some perks with a member upgrade!
    **Upgrade Now**
    (PS: Upgraded members don't see this banner, nor will you see the Google ads that appear on the site.)
Tips
Tips

Wedge Electrical issues [TR8]

Share this page

Hey Guys,

Here's the update. Got everything in place. Worked brilliantly. Car looks like heck because I still have half of the exterior our of it.

Had it correctly starting and charging. Headlights were bright, everything went well. All the right voltages at all the right places.

I went out an hour later to try starting it again... nothing...

Went over my voltages & voltage drops. Worked my way forward from the battery with my assistant's help. Hit the starter... nothing. So, pulled it and off to autozone. Test... FAIL.

Gauging by the age/appearance of the starter it looks original. I'm supposing that with everything else it figured "might as well...." So now I'm done until monday until I can either find a starter shop that can repair it, or source the part from somewhere.

This one is going down in my annals as the most annoying electrical problem ever. Heck, I've rewired cars from scratch in less time than this has taken (ever want to make yourself really confused and dizzy? Build your own wiring harness :smile:.

Jody
 
Jody-I would look for newer gear reduction Rover starter. They never fail and shed about half the weight and power draw with twice the torque. I have seen them on line used for 30.00 to 50.00!
 
Here is a list of the vehicles that used the gear reduction starter.
Discovery 94-99
Discovery Series II 99-04
Range Rover Classic 87-95
Range Rover 4.0 95-02
Range Rover 4.6 95-02
Defender 90 94-97
Defender 110 93
 
I'm taking the day off of the car today. Going to Tucson to go ride in a Healey 100/6 and ogle a friend's new XK120 project.

Considering where the car and I am at, I plan on ordering a gear reduction starter on Monday and also calling BritishWiring.com and obtaining a properly made set of battery cables and possibly a new engine harness. Sometimes it's easiest to just reset to factory original and work from there. My biggest fear is that through all this wacky hoop jumping I'm actually introducing a future set of problems that will drive me nuts. Since I can't dri ve it right now anyways, might as well take teh time and do it right.

Now, someone just needs to keep an eye on me so that I dont' start diassembling other bits and winding up with a new full restoration project (I think SWMBO would kill me).

Jody
 
Now if you get a gear reduction starter from TSI or others that is not the bosch/range rover make sure you position the mounting plate correctly to clear things.
 
GBRandy said:
...and yes. All it is is a splice on the main battery cable between the battery & the alternator. It powers most of what goes on inside the car.

TR8ElecBlock%201.jpg
Click to expand...

and it's unfused :eeek: I put a whole flotilla of inline fuses where the same point is in my Spitfire. Looks a little knarly, but at least the fuse should give up before the wires do, and might save you a burnt interior.
 
ok, just recieved the new gear reduction starter from TSI. I read the instructions that came with it.

My old starter has the main post, the IGN screw mount (on the bottom) and then a third screw mount on the top for a ~12 awg wire. The instructions state to connect any "leftover" wires to the bolt under the rubber cap on the back of the starter, is this correct?

And, if the IGN is supposed to connect to the black wire on the pigtail, what's the red wire on the pigtail used for?

Jody
 
The starter I did had the single post on for the large red & brown. Then there was a single male terminal for the white with red. The third (smallest) wire was not used. Now it seems that your starter may be different from the one I just installed into a TR8 sold by Roadster Factory.
 
WedgeWorks said:
Your going to connect the red lead from the battery and the brown going to alternator to the main post. The white with red, larger of the two small wires goes to the male terminal. You may have to change from a screw on connector to a female slip on connector. The remaining small wire does nothing, it gets taped over and tied off the the harness. DO NOT connect the left over wire to that post under the boot! I just did one of these starters at the Roadster Factory Summer party when the stock starter died. Besides no instructions about positioning the mounting plate or wiring......basically a starter in a box it was the same as putting a range rover starter in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for the response! I had a feeling it went that way.

What's the redundant wire for anyways? The small gauge one that used to be connected to IGN?

Off to "curriculum night" at eldest midget's middle school. After that I can go out to the garage and get dirty.
 
WedgeWorks said:
The starter I did had the single post on for the large red & brown. Then there was a single male terminal for the white with red. The third (smallest) wire was not used. Now it seems that your starter may be different from the one I just installed into a TR8 sold by Roadster Factory.
Click to expand...

I dunno, that sounds exactly like mine.

003.JPG


and

004.JPG
 
JodyFKerr said:
What's the redundant wire for anyways? The small gauge one that used to be connected to IGN?
Click to expand...
It shorts out the ballast resistor, giving full voltage to the coil during starting. In theory, it will give easier starts in cold weather ... if cold weather starting proves to be a problem for you, then you can add either a diode or a relay to perform the same function. But in general it's not a problem.
 
TR3driver said:
JodyFKerr said:
What's the redundant wire for anyways? The small gauge one that used to be connected to IGN?
Click to expand...
It shorts out the ballast resistor, giving full voltage to the coil during starting. In theory, it will give easier starts in cold weather ... if cold weather starting proves to be a problem for you, then you can add either a diode or a relay to perform the same function. But in general it's not a problem.
Click to expand...

Oh, shouldn't be a problem in Arizona. :smile:

Got the starter in, she runs again. Tooks it to autozone for their battery/alternator diagnostic machine.

Alernator failed testing. (*&#@^*@&&$(%&*@&@$ <-sailor speak)

Don't know if it was bad from the get go, or it went bad sitting in the garage for a couple days. Thank god for lifetime warrantys. I'll have the next one tested before I leave the store.
 
JodyFKerr said:
Alernator failed testing. (*&#@^*@&&$(%&*@&@$ <-sailor speak)

Don't know if it was bad from the get go, or it went bad sitting in the garage for a couple days. Thank god for lifetime warrantys. I'll have the next one tested before I leave the store.
Click to expand...
Might not help. Went through this with the wife's Toyota recently, something like 5 alternators in a row worked when initially installed, but died within a few months. Several mechanics plus myself went over the car looking for other problems. Replaced the battery & connectors (although IMO the originals weren't actually bad), that alternator only lasted about 3 weeks!

Last one seems to be good, though. It's been on for over a year now and still going.
 
Ironically, right now I'd be happy with an alternator that took a whole few months to die. :smile:

I vented my frustration by cleaning up the mess that was the garage and putting all my tools away.
 
Yes leave the small wire off. The starter I put in is of the same design but slightly different with the mounting holes for the block not being slotted/elongated like yours. All the same though. Hook up the white with red and the two main wires and your good! From the picture you are going to have to move the moutning flange so the main wires connect at a 12 o'clock position and the seloniod is horizontal in a 9 o'clock position.
 
So, I finally have resolved the charging issues! What a rollercoaster ride.

I pulled the alternator and took it in to Autozone this am to be bench tested. The Alternator passed. At that point I was starting to bang my head against the wall.

While there I picked up an extra ground strap. I got home, reinstalled the alternator and connected up the ground strap directly to one of the alternator bolts. No love. Output from the alternator had increased (up to ~12 from ~11).

I did the diagnostic of disconnecting the positive battery terminal to see if the car would continue running. Not only did it continue, but the output of the alternator stabilized at ~14 volts! At this point I figured that there was something wrong with the battery cable. Out of curiosity I placed my voltmeter on the positive battery connector and the negative battery connector. 14 volts. Reconnect battery drop to 12 volts. It was the bloody battery the whole time!~

Stormed back into autozone, and bought a new battery. Bingo, bango, bongo, proper voltages everywhere in the car! So, I now completely dislike those new battery testing units that they're using at Autozone. I don't think they are accurate.

So, thank got it's all over, but this is the last time I trust the diagnostic equipment at Autozone. It's been bad enough that their personnel have become pretty ignorant, it's even worse when the idiot boxes they hook up to your vehicle don't work either!
 
JodyFKerr said:
So, I now completely dislike those new battery testing units that they're using at Autozone. I don't think they are accurate.
Click to expand...
Not that it's any consolation, but the one at my local Pep Boys is just as bad. It never would admit that my battery was bad, even though it wouldn't start the car. Just said "Needs charged". I finally dared the store manager to charge the battery and use it to start any car ... he caved and adjusted it under warranty. Last battery I'm ever buying from them!
 
Back
Top