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Electric vehicles
- Thread starter NutmegCT
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Planning on leasing an electric (leased car is part of my salary - I wouldn't lease a car on my own) full electrics now make up a full 15% of the local new car market. I think a large part of it is that the Chinese companies have targeted the Israeli market because our automotive rules match the European market - and apparently it is a good / relatively safer market to learn how to deal with western customers than a full roll out of every car in a large country.
In any case, having looked at a few of them... they seem to have learned from the Korean mistakes in moving into western advanced markets (remember the Hyundai pony or any of the crappy Kias from a few years ago) The Chinese cars I have looked at have all had reasonably good quality interiors and are of course meeting current safety specs.
As for the replaceable batteries.. I watched the "Better Place" disaster up close. Better Place tried rolling out a car with automatic battery replacement stations. The cars were based on a Renault Fluence if I recall correctly. The cars themselves drove fairly well. The problem was even with the automatic battery switching they weren't has convenient as a gas station they were sort of like an automatic car wash that you drove into, the battery dropped out of the bottom and a new one put in. They still took as much time as a regular fill up but had much lower range so you would have needed to stop much more frequently. Since they needed to keep the batteries small enough for easy swapping and a shape which could be easily swapped... Even the relatively small number of automatic swap stations needed for a country the size of Israel was enough to make the project absurdly expensive. They also never even begin to think about how to manage multiple battery types needed for different car models which would then needed to be available at all swap stations. Charge stations are now quickly moving to few standardized connectors.
Around here where we are very quickly reaching critical mass of cars almost all gas stations are installing fast chargers, there are rapidly increasing numbers are public parking locations - some in the downtown area are setup so that if you are paying for charging parking is free (included) but if you park a gas car or aren't charging you will be ticketed since the city is still expecting to be paid for the location. And destinations such as hotels all have been installing chargers. So charging shouldn't be an issue. I fortunately planned ahead when we were doing renovations and ran a power line to my parking location in preparations for a charging station.
In any case, having looked at a few of them... they seem to have learned from the Korean mistakes in moving into western advanced markets (remember the Hyundai pony or any of the crappy Kias from a few years ago) The Chinese cars I have looked at have all had reasonably good quality interiors and are of course meeting current safety specs.
As for the replaceable batteries.. I watched the "Better Place" disaster up close. Better Place tried rolling out a car with automatic battery replacement stations. The cars were based on a Renault Fluence if I recall correctly. The cars themselves drove fairly well. The problem was even with the automatic battery switching they weren't has convenient as a gas station they were sort of like an automatic car wash that you drove into, the battery dropped out of the bottom and a new one put in. They still took as much time as a regular fill up but had much lower range so you would have needed to stop much more frequently. Since they needed to keep the batteries small enough for easy swapping and a shape which could be easily swapped... Even the relatively small number of automatic swap stations needed for a country the size of Israel was enough to make the project absurdly expensive. They also never even begin to think about how to manage multiple battery types needed for different car models which would then needed to be available at all swap stations. Charge stations are now quickly moving to few standardized connectors.
Around here where we are very quickly reaching critical mass of cars almost all gas stations are installing fast chargers, there are rapidly increasing numbers are public parking locations - some in the downtown area are setup so that if you are paying for charging parking is free (included) but if you park a gas car or aren't charging you will be ticketed since the city is still expecting to be paid for the location. And destinations such as hotels all have been installing chargers. So charging shouldn't be an issue. I fortunately planned ahead when we were doing renovations and ran a power line to my parking location in preparations for a charging station.
OP
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Actually - I'd consider an EV myself if someone else paid for it!
Too bad the "replaceable battery" car you described had such a short-range battery. But seems that a "full size" replaceable would still be better than waiting a couple hours for a full charge.
Yisroel - thanks for sharing your first hand experience.
Too bad the "replaceable battery" car you described had such a short-range battery. But seems that a "full size" replaceable would still be better than waiting a couple hours for a full charge.
Yisroel - thanks for sharing your first hand experience.
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The reasons I won't buy one are myriad. The only ones with decent range are all above $50,000. There are no charging stations that are not at least twenty-five miles out of my way. Recycling of lithium batteries is still a nascent process, and most lithium batteries are still winding up in landfills. Due to the short life span of the batteries there isn't really much of a secondary market. While EVs have come a long way in the past ten years they still do not represent a truly viable alternative to internal combustion.
Recharge batteries in cars don't ever charge to 100% of actual capacity. They are limited to around 85% of theorical capacity to preserve lifespan. They also are limited to how much you can discharge them. Both over and under charging are hard on their lifespan.
The idea behind them 20 minute quick charge is that it allows the battery to be mostly charged while avoiding heat stress.
Don't forget that building an EV is far more harmful to the environment than a conventional gas car.
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Food for thought:
Online
From an organization with no agenda. Even if I accept all their "facts," I personally have zero interest in an EV. I have no issue if others want them, but I think the market should decide...without any external or artificial pressures. But that's just me.Food for thought:
YakkoWarner
Jedi Warrior
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The frustrating thing is that overall, I really like the concept of electric drive - especially for a commmuter vehicle. Not wearing out clutches or (torque converters) and brakes in traffic is very appealing - the immediate off the line torque makes it seem a lot more powerful, and the removal of the complex tranmission/transaxle, differentials, etc and replacing with electric moters that have far fewer moving parts seems to make great improvements in reliability. The battery system is the weak link overall, which makes the price of purchase unattaintable for common people.
I had a friend who had one of the above-mentioned BMW I3 cars and it was really well thought out and engineered. The idea of using a small engine to provide electricity to supplment the batteries seemed brilliant - much better than the hybrid methods that include a full mechanical drivetrain in addition to the full electric drivetrain.
I want to see charging stations simplfied - I like the McDonalds idea mentioned earlier, as long as there is a way to pay at the register rather than having to find someone with internet access, credit cards and a smartphone to handle the transaction for you.
I had a friend who had one of the above-mentioned BMW I3 cars and it was really well thought out and engineered. The idea of using a small engine to provide electricity to supplment the batteries seemed brilliant - much better than the hybrid methods that include a full mechanical drivetrain in addition to the full electric drivetrain.
I want to see charging stations simplfied - I like the McDonalds idea mentioned earlier, as long as there is a way to pay at the register rather than having to find someone with internet access, credit cards and a smartphone to handle the transaction for you.
