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NutmegCT said:
"People are gullible". Ain't that the truth. Back when the framers were cobbling together our Constitution, Gov. Elbridge Gerry (yep, that Gerry ...) wasn't too positive on giving all people "the vote".

" ... they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute ..."

And that was before the internet!

We sure don't want to trust people around two parts hydrogen, one part oxygen!
Tom M.
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Much later, Dwight Eisenhower was completely surprised when his advisors told him "half the electorate is of below average intelligence!"
 
NutmegCT said:
"People are gullible". Ain't that the truth. Back when the framers were cobbling together our Constitution, Gov. Elbridge Gerry (yep, that Gerry ...) wasn't too positive on giving all people "the vote".

" ... they are daily misled into the most baneful measures and opinions by the false reports circulated by designing men, and which no one on the spot can refute ..."

And that was before the internet!
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And anyone in doubt should look up some of the vitriol spewed at T. Jefferson as he was vying for office!
 
NutmegCT said:
Tom M.
PS - if you celebrate Hannukah, Chag Urim Sameach!
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Thank you!
Of course we are celebrating :smile:
1638727809727.png
 
Not to ignore Hanukkah, but when I was working on my thesis (on fuel cells) in the late 60's, the professors said there would not be major improvements in batteries beyond what was available at the time. We've gone to some more exotic elements since then, but power density hasn't improved all that much. Going from lead to lithium has improved the weight, but lead is recycled and, so far, lithium isn't, and mining it is another environmental disaster.

IIRC, our largest source of hydrogen is from natural gas, definitely not sustainable. As most everyone knows, it can be obtained by electrolysis of water, which requires electric power. As long as electric power comes from fossil fuels, electric vehicles will not be truly "zero-emissions."

My state is pushing electric vehicles, but we have select power outages in the summer when the air conditioning load comes dangerously close to exceeding the grid capacity. In a year of two, we will lose a major generating station (Diablo Canyon). I would hate to be driving an EV and need a charge in the afternoon when there's no power available.

As for solar, we have a system on the south side of our roof, with the front of our house on the north side. I don't know if they still offer power purchase agreements like we have, but our bill for solar is way less per kWh than that from our utility, $0.18/kWh vs $0.26/kWh.
 
I have seen articles talking about installing solar panels at gas stations to power the electrolysis production. That would also eliminate fuel used to transport what ever to the gas station.
 
Just thinking out loud ... back when ICE (and steam) cars were first getting started, you bought your (fossil) fuel at hardware stores, pharmacies, saddleries, etc. Electrics had charging stations in cities, or at the home of the (wealthy) owners.

charging station.jpg


Maybe concentrating electric/hydrogen vehicle fuel production only at "filling stations" is passe'.
 
GregW said:
I have seen articles talking about installing solar panels at gas stations to power the electrolysis production. That would also eliminate fuel used to transport what ever to the gas station.
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All but Twinkies and Cheetos!
 
Interesting read and it perfectly highlights the problems we run into when bureaucracies run things. They stay locked into plans whether or not things change in the mean time. Honestly, blue hydrogen sounds pretty terrible from an environmental standpoint.
 
Back in the 50s and 60s tractor manufacturers started building tractors to use Butane, then switched to propane as it's a little more powerful than butane. Diesel tractors started taking over due to power increases and cheaper fuel costs, thus most if not all propane tractors got parked and many now dot the countryside as junk. Some are saved as collector's pieces, but their daily usefulness is over. PJ
Tractor Propane.jpg
 
By the way member jcw67Spitfire has set up a "Group" for Cars, either EVs are just to discuss electrical modifications. Not sure where the problem is but he's having trouble "approving" those of you in this thread who have requested to join. We're working together to try and figure this out. Stand by.
 
Thanks. I accepted his invitation, and started a discussion in the group. Never got a reply to being approved or to my post.

Edit: I see there are two replies to my post there, but I never got an alert or email about them.
 
NutmegCT said:
Walt - speaking of bureaucracies running things ... remember the R100 and R101?
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From funding a project that is basically designed to lose money from the onset, then looking at all of the cost cutting measures used to get the airships running its kinda amazing that they ever actually got off the ground. I feel like they were a governmental answer to a question that didn't really exist. And that, in my mind, goes a long way to explaining why they weren't developed further after R101's crash.
 
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