Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need guide

[Steve1970]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

tinster awesome pictures, and thanks for the info!

was hoping to do this job all on my own (as i love to curse like a boilermaker while i'm working on this thing!!), but it looks like i'll have to enlist the help of big terry next door to help me lift and set it outside the car.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Getting the trans back in is a piece of cake if you know how to do it. How hard can it be if I did it alone, and it only took maybe a few minutes, till I was putting bolts in, you just need to know how to do it. You don't need anyone under the car, that's the hard way. If you want to know how, just ask. Also, you don't need a bolt in the clutch fork, if your clutch is right. If it takes enough leg to push the clutch in, so that the pin breaks, its not the pin that was the problem, its the pressure plate. However, the bolt mite let you drive it without breaking the pin, with a screwed up pressure plate. You are treating the symptoms instead of the cause. The magic clutch and the NOS clutch will not break the pin. However, the magic clutch has another problem, which I think can be overcome. In fact, it may not be a problem if you rarely drive it. I understand Revinton TR has a good clutch, however I have no personal experience with them, but, they probably do have it figured out.

 

[Tinster]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Getting the trans back in is a piece of cake if you know what you are doing. How hard can it be if I did it alone? You don't need anyone under the car.

<span style="color: #990000">Uh Searcherman?

I certainly mean no disrespect to ya buddy but ya
said quite a mouthful there.

IF you know what you are doing. That's a mighty big IF!!!
Obviously Steve has no clue, neither did I. Nor most folks.

How difficult can it be for one man to hold the tranny in mid air
with one hand while centering it on the engine dowels and using
the other hand to run the tranny/engine bolts? Huuummmmm.....??

I suppose not too difficult if ya look like: </span>

Just funnin wiff ya!!!!!!!

 

[TR3driver]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Also, you don't need a bolt in the clutch fork, if your clutch is right.

Wasn't a blessed thing wrong with my clutch, except that the pin fatigued and broke. It doesn't fit snugly into the other side of the fork, so it flexes every time you push the clutch in. There are other ways to solve this shortcoming, including reaming for a larger pin, but the bolt is the easiest for the DIY, IMO.
https://www.buckeyetriumphs.org/technical/clutch/ClutchShaft/ClutchShaft.htm

But if you'd rather take the risk of having to pull the gearbox just to replace the pin, than invest a couple of $$ and 20 minutes installing the bolt, go right ahead. Personally, I regard it as cheap insurance.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

I stand by my comments, and, actually, I am average size, and mine is OD. Why would you not believe me? Its very easy to install the transmission by oneself. There are several problems when more that one person gets involved, I have seen what happens when the car is surrounded by people trying to install a simple transmission. Evenyone thinks they have the answer as to why the trans won't go, move it this way, no, move it that way, no you are both wrong. And they all mean well. I have seen this go on for a long time. As long as the disc is lined up, its easy. Like I said, if you want to know how, you are going to have to ask. Also, I stand by my clutch pin comments, in regards to the TR6, I have no experience with a TR3, so I won't comment. If my clutch was as hard to push in as most I have seen, I would sell the car. In fact, if they were that hard to push in when new, the dealers couldn't have sold them. Its like this, a PGA teaching pro asked me once how long I had been doing the type of work that I do, so I told him. He then asked me how was I going to take his job in a few months if it took me years and years to learn mine. You can either turn clutch replacement in to World War 3, or, execute it properly.

 

[swift6]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

I've removed and installed several TR6 transmissions by myself. It is fairly easy and straight forward, but its not a piece of cake. I'm not sure why SearcherMan is acting like he has the Holy Grail of information here, asking anyone in need of his wisdom to genuflect to his seemingly self proclaimed expertise. I'll tell all that will listen how I do it, and it already closely matches what some others have stated. I know SearcherMan disagrees with the basic premise of forums like this, on topics like this, and would rather have people take it to a professional mechanic. (You have said just that in the past :wink: )

1. Raise car on four even jack-stands. Open the bonnet and isolate the battery.

2. Remove the passenger seat, seat rail, Gear shift knob, center dash support (plinth), shift lever gaiter, transmission tunnel carpet, transmission tunnel.

3. Undo the wiring to the reverse light switch and Overdrive if fitted. Tuck it up out of the way.

Now we go under the car.

4. Place a jack with a block of wood under the rear of the engine. I have a bottle jack that I use here because its easy to position correctly and I have one that takes weeks under pressure to bleed down even a millimeter. I place my trolley jack under the transmission more for safety and as a redundancy than anything else. I've done this procedure several times without one there though as well.

5. Sometime I find it easier to undo the bottom starter bolt from underneath. I have also done that from the passenger compartment with the transmission tunnel out. Now is also a good time undo the starter connections and the battery if you didn't do that at the start.

Back into the passenger compartment now.

6. Now is just as good of a time as any to lay down a piece of cardboard/blanket etc... to protect the carpet on the passenger floorboard.

7. Disconnect the drive-shaft from the rear of the transmission. Disconnect the transmission from the rear mount.

8. With the rear mount and transmission disconnected I usually raise the rear of the engine until just before it touches the accelerator cross shaft. This puts the tail of the transmission higher, and IMHO, this makes sliding it out and then back into place a little easier.

9. Take the top bolt of the starter and remove the starter.

10. Now you can remove the rest of the nut/bolt & nut/stud fasteners. Swing the clutch slave cylinder bracket out of the way.

11. You can now pull the transmission out a bit now but just to the end of the studs across the top of the bell-housing.

12. Here is the "heave-ho" aspect. Be smart and it won't kill you. From the passenger side of the car, with the passenger door open. Pull the transmission all the way off the studs, withdrawing the input shaft fully and swing the tail of the transmission toward you (passenger side, devoid of seat and runner with carpet protected).

13. Now you can easily grab the the bell housing with your right hand, the tail-shaft area with your left hand and can lift it straight up and through the open passenger door. Then, carefully set it down (bend your knees if you can, don't use all back muscles).

14. Now you can work on it right there or take it to a bench to work on it.

15. Re-installing, once you are sure the clutch plate is aligned, is pretty much the reverse. You can work out the details yourself. I can help with those too if needed.


Tips:

1. A second person, while not necessary, can make removing the the nut/bolt fasteners a bit easier and faster. Besides, misery loves company, or so they say.

2. Air tools definitely make your life easier.



Anecdote:

About ten years ago a friend of mine with a TR6, that he was turning into serious auto-crosser/solo-1 car, wanted to try a few different clutch packages out. We tried four different packages. Didn't bother putting the passenger compartment back together in-between other than the transmission tunnel, center brace and shift knob. By the end of it all, the two of us, working in concert, could change the clutch in 15 minutes.

 

[TR3driver]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

One thing I'll add to Shawn's excellent description : the plastic "clutch alignment tool" I got from one of the big 3 was nearly useless. So badly undersize that it did not ensure the clutch plate was anywhere close to correct alignment. Fortunately, I had a ruined input shaft in the parts bin that works much better.

 

[TRopic6]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Aloha Steve,
Seems by the time I get to the Forum out here, the problem is usually solved. Many years ago I read an article in the TRA newsletter on tranny removal & replacement. It said make a couple of these pins: cut the heads off 3" long 1/4 bolts and put a screwdriver slot in it. Once the tranny is out (just like swift6 says), remove one or two of the short studs that are at the top of the block that the tranny bolts up two. Replace with the long-reach studs you just made, using a screwdriver to tighten into place. (I hope my pictures get attached)

Put the transmission in 4th gear and manfully wrestle the transmission onto those studs. With the front of the transmission bellhousing supported by the long studs, you can slide it forward while carefully turning the output flange to line the input shaft splines with the driven plate. It should slide right up against the rear engine plate - make sure you have the two slightly larger dowel pins installed to ensure good alignment. After installing some of the regular nut & bolts you can replace your homemade long studs with the normal ones (use the 2-nut method to get the stud all the way in.)

Like Randall I used an old input shaft to center the driven plate. I also put a 1/4 rollpin in the fork where Dale shows. That was a year ago and so far so good.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Piece of cake is in the eye of the beholder. Compared to some of the procedures on newer cars, it is a piece of cake, to say the least. Ask a Ford technician if he liked to pull the oil pan on a seemingly simple 85-89 Ford V-6 Ranger 4x4 pickup truck, he will probably turn red, and reach for a Marlboro. I wouldn't disagree with your post. And, as you said, you don't need 2 people, same as I said. It is, in my opinion easier to put back in with 1 person, also, you didn't comment on your technique for installation, as that seems to be where people have the biggest problem. You see this goes much deeper than, Forums, Triumphs, whatever. I deal with people every day on those stupid cell phones, which, unknown to most,have degraded the quality of life in the US these days. Todays younger generation is basically worthless, sad to say. They can't fix anything, in fact the majority are so overweight, they are limited in not only motivation, but they can't manuever due to all the excess blubber. Instead of training their mind to figure out how to solve problems, they are trained to call their buddy. They are what I call "telephone techs". They can't fix anything without calling their buddy, who, to quote one Supervisor, "tells them wrong", which sets off a chain of noteworthy events. What this does is create an overwhelming demand for old school people, They can't even take a dump without the phone ringing, or eat dinner. And, the people calling just want something for nothing. Why shouldn't people pay for what they know? Or, in your line of work, what you know, do you work for nothing? Sure,most people don't mind helping someone out, but that can grow into everyone wanting to be helped out, family, friends, people you never heard of, and the phone never quits. These same people never call to see how you are doing, they only call when they need something, usually say they don't have time. However, most do have the time to let people like Rush Limbaugh brainwash them on the radio, or rent a room for a party with topless dancers. Fact is they only call when they want something for nothing. I don't know what you do for a living, however, I bet if there was a forum for it, you would have a different view. Forums are ok for minor problems, which I suspect is how they started. Also,I suspect most TR6 owners don't even know what a normal clutch feels like, they think it should take 2 legs to push it in, and you should push it thru the firewall to disengage it. And, I don't believe most major repairs turn out all right in forums, you, or I, are not doing anyone a favor helping them attempt to do something they are not capable of, unless, you subcribe to the line of thought that anyone can do anything. Some are gifted in one area, others are gifted in other areas. Also, there are safety concerns, ever seen a car fall on someone? You assume in your post, first that someone knows how to jack a car up, and where to place the jack stands. If they have never done major repairs, do they even have a floor jack, or jack stands? What this means is they will try to "get by", and then they end up tearing up more than they fix, or someone will get hurt. Also, judging by your paragraph 4 comments, you are in for a fight when you install the trans, in other words, you are doing it the hard way. I also have noticed, some of the regulars in here, they can tell someone how to do anything, but, when it comes to major overhauls, they are smart enough to take it to a shop.
This forum is no different than where I work, they don't like me, but, they need me, its all about the cabbage.

 

[Steve1970]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

shawn, you just cured about 80 percent of my apprehension about this job, thanks.

randall, i think i've got to use their alignment tool, it's all that i have. can i 'get by' with the alignment tool?

TRopic6, great info.. i read about these custom studs somewhere else, but i could not visualize it until i read your explanation.

thanks all.. i'll keep you posted

 

[Tinster]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Steve-

Shawn has the general concept down fairly well......
for a rookie amateur.

<span style="color: #660000">I'm makin' a bit of a funny here. Shawn and
three other forum expert mechanics walked me step by step
thru the clutch change out process. </span>

But since you and me really are rookies Steve, I'll suggest
you modify one of Shawn's line items based upon my own experience.

My suggestion:

13. Now a buddy standing in the open passenger door side can
easily grab the the bell housing with his right hand.
Meanwhile, you are standing in the open driver's door side,
grab the tranny tail-shaft area with your right hand. The two
of you then lift the tranny straight up and move it thru the
open passenger door. Then, carefully set it down (bend your knees if you can, don't use all back muscles).

In my case, that second set of hands was an expert mechanic
from Canada that showed up at my door one day, begging some
fine Puerto Rican pit roasted whole pig in exchange for his
auto skills!

Thanks David!!

 

[TR3driver]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

randall, i think i've got to use their alignment tool, it's all that i have. can i 'get by' with the alignment tool?

IMO, you're better off feeling the alignment with your fingers. Stick your finger through the splined hole in the clutch plate, and feel the gap between it and the center hole in the flywheel, all around. Tap the plate around until the gap is perfectly even, then tighten the pressure plate and recheck. At least that works for the TR2-4 flywheel, I've not tried it on a 6.

If you do want to try to get by with the plastic tool, check that you can wiggle it equal amounts in all directions with the PP snugged up. IOW, a few degrees up to a few degrees down, not just center to down.

When installing the gearbox, after the splines engage, move the angle of the gearbox around just a bit until the tip of the shaft slides into the pilot bearing. But don't put too much pressure on the gearbox during this process, as it can damage the bearing. And certainly don't try to force it the last little bit with nuts or whatever; it should slide easily until the flange is snug against the engine.

 

[swift6]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

This forum is no different than where I work, they don't like me, but, they need me, its all about the cabbage.

Not sure I follow your line of reasoning here SearcherMan. Most of your posts have been complaints or completely negative in tone. Not all, as I have had some reasonable discourse with you. While we value differing opinions, we don't NEED to be scorned, ridiculed and talked down to. Yes, I made some assumptions because I like to give people the benefit of the doubt and not treat them like children. BTW, do you write Military Training Manuals or some other form of technical writing?

Forums like this one, as well as the LBC community in general, are about camaraderie, friendship, brotherhood and ENJOYING our HOBBY. Yes, these are mostly HOBBY cars, not investments. Some of us also enjoy them so much we drive them on a regular basis, even daily. Your distaste for the next generation is as off putting to me as the next generations seem to be to you. They are growing up in a different type of world than you did. Different than the one I grew up in too. They are not all bad, even the ones that may seem to be might surprise you if you look beyond their hair, clothes, electronic attachments etc...

One thing that I hear over and over about this (LBC) hobby is that it is like therapy for "real life". Maybe you should try enjoying your TR6 instead of fretting over the value not being as high as you think it should be. Sounds like you could use the occasional break from "real life".

 

[BJones]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Getting the trans back in is a piece of cake if you know how to do it. How hard can it be if I did it alone, and it only took maybe a few minutes, till I was putting bolts in, you just need to know how to do it. You don't need anyone under the car, that's the hard way. If you want to know how, just ask.

I will bite SearcherMan, because I would like everyone's perspective and this is how I learn. I am on the younger end of the age scale here and cannot afford to pay for other people to work on my car, and doing the work myself is the main reason I got into this hobby. That and driving them! Could you please tell me/us the way you do it?

Thanks,

 

[Tinster]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Hey Brent!!

How ya Doin' ????

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

This is for Mr. Jones, well I think I do it the easy way. The reason most people need a gang to remove/install the transmission is they don't let the jackS do the work. The primary jack goes under the transmission. The secondary jack goes under the engine. Why would someone attempt to move the larger object rather than the smaller one? So, as Swift said, you jack the engine up, but not to much, you don't want the top engine/transmission bolt holes higher than the top of the tunnel sheetmetal, then you can't get the trans in/out, if you understand this. The key is having the transmission supported on a movable, adjustable jack. That way you can do anything you need to do to get a precise alignment, and move the trans forward/backward, without somone under the car. Let the jack do the work. Also, I would try to use a transmission input shaft to align the pressure plate. If the pp is not exactly right, you will never get the trans in. The 2 jack method also is the easy way to remove the trans. Keep in mind when you install the trans, if you have the engine at the proper angle to begin with, you won't have to move that jack while manuevering the trans in place. The lower the car is, the easier this all works, cause if you have the car to high, its harder to handle the jacks. There is no reason to raise the car way up in the air. Set the jack stands as low as possible. I also have a concrete floor in my garage. This is a much safer way, as no one is under the car. However, never get under the car when it is supported by only jacks, always use jack stands when you are getting under the car, don't trust a jack. And, take your time, and be careful. Whose clutch you going to use? If you have any other questions, just ask. I used to be young and spent all my money on chicks.

 

[TheSearcherMan]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

This is for Mr. Swift. No, I don't write military manuals, but thanks for the complement. You have always seemed to take interest in my posts, I'm flattered. I am the one being scorned in here, not you. Anyhow, if I were you, I would check and see if my #1, 7, 8 lifters are spinning, if you think that is important. I suspect they are not. I think you should comment more on the technical nature of my posts, rather than the delivery method. You sound like you would rather have someone tell you what you want to hear, rather than just the facts. I am proud of my mechanical know how, and, I realize the value of solid tecnical advice. I am not looking down at anyone in here, but more importantly, one thing I can assure you of, I ain't looking up either.

 

[Tinster]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

I must be missing something here; so Steve must be also.
Where are the spinning lifters located in our clutch
assemblies?

My car car runs real smooth on the new clutch, for
over a year now, in metro stop and go traffic. I'll
be darned if I remember any spinning lifters during
the change out. And my clutch pedal is real easy to
push in as well.

Are spinning lifters something Steve, Brent and I need
to be concerned of?

thanks,

tinster

 

[poolboy]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

It seems, Dale, that Searcherman has turned his attention to the tappets and valve pushrods. ???

 

[mrv8q]

Re: Dropping gearbox to replace fork pin, need gu

Wow, I'm loving this thread, it's like watching a tennis match, except there's never going to be any love..... Carry on!