Thanks fellas, Hey Tom. the fella who taught me aerobatics in my Stearman, was a Czechoslovakian ex fighter pilot and when he was teaching me, I used to say a prayer every time I crawled in the plane with him , until I got used to the idea he really knew what he was doing, the tension would mount for a while. :grin: The guy was tough as nails, I guess after being knocked out of the sky a couple times and only suffering a broken ankle he never quit. Still alive and living in Washington state, he wrote to me a couple years ago, what a surprise, Great guy! Fond memories, all we have left. PJ