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Does this count as British car?

DavidApp

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Saw this drive by as we were eating last night in New Smyrna Beach FL. Does it count as a LBC?

David

AC in NSB.jpg
 

LarryK

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Maybe not if fiberglass, but the Daimler Dart was fiberglass.
 

Madflyer

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This car was taken from the org. AC Bristol. A C Bristol AKA Auto Carriers Ltd is a British specialist automobile. Surry England. Carroll Shelby found it to have the lines and weight he was looking for. Early cars may have been though of as British . Ford changed all that as history tells us. Todays kit cars will never be an LBC but this just me. Madflyer
 

JPSmit

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This car was taken from the org. AC Bristol. A C Bristol AKA Auto Carriers Ltd is a British specialist automobile. Surry England. Carroll Shelby found it to have the lines and weight he was looking for. Early cars may have been though of as British . Ford changed all that as history tells us. Todays kit cars will never be an LBC but this just me. Madflyer

I agree.

OTOH at British Car Shows we have
new minis (BMW)
new Jags (Tata)
a few Cobras (whatever)
New Bentleys (VW)
Rolls Royce (BMW)

they're all just cars and welcome - though less welcome to my eyes because they aren't old enough than because of their lineage.
 

vette

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I agree.

OTOH at British Car Shows we have
new minis (BMW)
new Jags (Tata)
a few Cobras (whatever)
New Bentleys (VW)
Rolls Royce (BMW)

they're all just cars and welcome - though less welcome to my eyes because they aren't old enough than because of their lineage.

I would tend to agree as well. At best the Cobra Replica could be called a tribute car. But what is it tributing? It's certainly not tributing the AC ACE which was the original English car. It's way too far removed from the AC Ace. So it has to be tributing the Cobra itself. That's not a British car therefore it is not a LBC.
 

Madflyer

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Well it seems there is some agreement as to LBC's and kit cars. What changes could be made and still be a British car ??? I know of a MG TD with a Volvo 4 cyl motor still and MG TD ??? I saw a TR 6 with a Corvette motor still a TR 6 ??? Is it where it was made. Still the same body and running gear make it LBC. As our club President says all good questions. I do not think a 1965 Mimi should be classed with a BMW knock off. And last the Lotus 7 , S7 were always kit cars and should always be LBC's no matter were they are made, That's just me. I had a Berkley many years ago all fiberglass with a motorcycle motor. Madflyer
 

pdplot

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The Cobra replicas are not LBCs because the Cobra itself was not an LBC. It was an American - Carroll Shelby's idea. Too far removed from the original AC Ace or AC Bristol.
An MG TD with a Volvo engine - LBC.
TR6 with Corvette motor? Chassis, body and running gear left substantially the same (except for beefed-up parts to handle the extra juice) - still an LBC.
New Mini? Depends on your definition of an LBC. I always thought an LBC - Little British Car - was an English sports car, not anything like an Austin A40 or Triumph Mayflower.
Those Allard J2X and K2 knockoffs - they are Replicas, not LBCs by definition.
Let the arguments begin.
 

vette

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I feel there is a difference between an Allard replica and a Cobra Replica. The Allard was a British creation so to me a replica of an Allard can be a poser LBC. But the Cobra was never a British creation. It was American so to me a replica of a Cobra cannot be a LBC nor a replica of a LBC.
 
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DavidApp

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Spirited Discussion not argument I hope.

I watched a you tube video of the making of one of the 6 remaining Lightweight E Types. The guy making the film had access to the entire process except for viewing of progress by the well healed buyer. He also visited a well known car dealer and asked how the new E Type was being viewed. The dealer turned his nose up at it saying "they have no providence" and would not be welcome at the high end shows.
If I can find the video I will link to it.
David
 

pdplot

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Dave - we are in agreement on the Cobra.
The Allards - I'd have to agree that they are LBCs (not so little), especially if made in England. Allard has long been out of business, so these replicas are just carrying on the marque since they appear to be exact copies of the J2X and K2 - maybe with better suspensions.Those Allards were dangerous cars - a real handful to drive fast. An MG TD replica with a VW engine? They just don't look right. Something is "off". Healeys? Have never seen a Healey replica but I think they exist.
 

vette

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Spirited Discussion not argument I hope.

I watched a you tube video of the making of one of the 6 remaining Lightweight E Types. The guy making the film had access to the entire process except for viewing of progress by the well healed buyer. He also visited a well known car dealer and asked how the new E Type was being viewed. The dealer turned his nose up at it saying "they have no providence" and would not be welcome at the high end shows.
If I can find the video I will link to it.
David

The Devil is in the details. Different venues will view the cars differently. Are the new Lightweight E types real E-types. Of coarse they are. They are built by the same factory, the same way the originals were. Do they have provenance, define provenance. Maybe not as much maybe more someday. Do the the continuation Cobras built by Shelby American using the remaining serial numbers from the sixties have provenance. Again maybe not as much as the first Cobras but still Cobras not replicas. This reminds me a an article I read in the Antique Automobile Club of America Magazine a few years back. I won't have all the nomenclature of the car correct because I am writing from memory but, as the story went, Someone had commissioned to have built two 1932 Cadillac Duel Cowl Phaeton 16 cylinder cars. These cars were not restorations they were built entirely from scratch. They were built to exacting standards and were absolutely exact copies of the blueprints for these cars as they were drawn in the Cadillac design studio. These cars were magnificent in beauty and intricacies as you can imagine of the time.
These cars were submitted to an AACA National Meet for judging to achieve the AACAs highest award, the National Senior Award. The AACA turned them down and would not allow them to be judged. But these cars were beautiful and built to exacting standards. Completely as the factory would have built them. So why did the AACA turn them down. First answer is they were not antiques. They were brand new cars. Now try to define the fine line between a car that is so restored that nothing on it is from the factory. And maybe one that was never even in the factory. The second reason they were turned down. These cars were copies of cars that were never built. The commisioner of the the project had acquired plans, detailed and finished made ready to be sent to the factory for series production but at the last minute the plans were never used and the cars were never built. These copies were copies of a ghost.
 

JPSmit

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I feel there is a difference between an Allard replica and a Cobra Replica. The Allard was a British creation so to me a replica of an Allard can be a poser LBC. But the Cobra was never a British creation. It was American so to me a replica of a Cobra cannot be a LBC nor a replica of a LBC.

However, while there is some issue with the Allard family - new Allards are welcome into the Allard register - so the Registry at least considers them to be 'real'

https://www.allardj2x.com/

the controversy

https://www.nytimes.com/2018/11/08/business/allards-cars.html
 

LarryK

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Bristols were a British creation. Shelby talked Bristol into furnishing bodies for the ( American) Cobra. Body is LBC, if steel, but engines were Ford (some made in England) deemed American, as the Brit's weren't into V-8s. Then bodies became aluminum and engines bigger V-8s. 260- 289- 427. Swallow Doriettas were hand built bodies on Triumph chassis and were considered LBCs too.
 

Madflyer

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I worked on a car show event in Reno NV. many years ago ( Sports cars and all that Jazz ) If you think this Blog today is open to question. Kit cars, GT's, two seaters, all came into question. They wanted as many car as could be found any and all would be worthy. Hot August was still new in Reno but car people enjoyed Reno and came from near and far. This event ran for three years and the Jazz was not that well attended. Some big named Jazz players could not fill the stages. People came to see the cars and did not gamble. I worked as a rep to bring in car clubs and went to club meetings in NV and CA. Eye opening to be sure, Datsun 1800-2000 do not like Z cars. Cobra club said they were not sure because Hot August was for Hot Rods. I told them I was not HAN they did not come as a club. Each Casino wanted their own Marque in front Italy, Germany, UK, USA.
The problem was most committee people were not car people Jazz, Casino, ran the show. When the streets were to be reopened many had left their cars $60.000 plus cars. I had to find owners drive cars tow cars and just sit and weight for owners to drunk to drive.
I have taken my TR 6 to many British car events and worked a few all up and down the West Coast. Never have I seen the likes JUST SAYING Madflyer
 
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