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Disconected Red Wire

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mrstinson

mrstinson

Senior Member
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I took off the distributor cap to modify the point gap and found this red wire not connected to anything. What is this wire for and were does it go?

I placed this link to a picture showing the red wire.
 
Looks like a duplicate of the cloth covered one to me.

Hard to tell by the picture ange, is the other end attached to the dizzy case, or the plastic connector that slides out?
 
Out of curiosity... how long have you owned this car? Like Kenny, I wonder if the red wire was put in (by a previous owner) to address one of the two cloth covered wires being broken.

Both of those cloth covered wires are necessary for the dizzy to work and both wires are made of highly flexible, finely stranded wire (like the type used on motor brushes). The top one insures that the breaker plate is properly grounded to the housing and the lower one connects the spade lug on the outside of the dizzy to the moving arm of the points. If either fails, you loose your ground connection for the points and the ignition stops working. (Actually... sometimes the one grounding the breaker plate to the housing can fail and only cause intermittent problems... but that's another story).

The wires are surprisingly expensive but are still available. However, when I've had these fail I've gotten the flex wire off a carbon brush for a large electrical motor and soldered these in place rather than invest in the new wires. The solid conductor red wire in your photo won't last long. If you determine it's there to address a break I'd replace or repair the original wires ASAP.
 
Kenny - I am not sure if the other side of the red wire is connected to the housing, but will check.

Doug - I have not owned the car long and almost right after I bought it winter came around and had to put it away. I will take a meter to the original wires and see if there is a good connection and will replace if neccesary. Thanks for the tip about grabbing the wire from a "large electrical motor".

Should I pull the distributor to do this work or leave it in? Please keep in mind that I am new to this and have never pulled or replace a distriputor, but there is always a first time of everything.
 
There is no reason that you can't do this kind of work in place. If you pull the distributor out then you are in a situation where you will have to retime the engine when you put the dizzy back in. It's always best to work with one variable at a time when you are learning to work on automobiles. In other words after you replace (if necessary) these wires, you don't won't to be wondering if you car won't start because you fiddled with the timing. My method is a bit slower but it helps me sleep at night...lol
JC
 
I find it very difficult to work on the distributor, unless it is removed from the car. Those little base plate screws have a mind of their own (they love to run off and hide). Any good shop manual can walk you through removing and replacing the distributor. As long as you mark it well and don't turn the engine over while the distributor is out, you can get it back in the same orientation without losing your timing. Which shop manuals do you have?
 
Hmm, JC and I disagree. Maybe my eyesight and dexterity are not what they used to be.
 
Both Trevor and JC have valid points. Those screws are an odd size (so you won't find replacements at the hardware store). It's easier to work on distributor's out of the car but usually that means at least setting the static timing when you put the dizzy back in. All-in-all... since the car is new to you, and since I don't know if you're familiar with setting static timing, I'd recommend carefully working on these checks and fixes with the dizzy in the block. If you decide to pull the dizzy for these checks, post here for how to start and how to set static timing. It isn't hard but like most tasks you should have an idea what you're doing before jumping in.

Keep in mind that sometimes the wires INSIDE those cloth covers may touch and then separate only when the vacuum advance moves the breaker plate. Don't check for continuity without including a test where you gently tug on the cloth covered wires.

I have a VW Rabbit where the wires to the Hall sensor in the dizzy fatigued. The wires would touch at idle, allowing you to start the car, but when the vacuum advance kicked in the wires would "open" and the engine would die.
 
I have no problem with pulling the dizzy to do this particular job and in fact probably would go that route instead of staying bent underneath the hood for an extended period of time myself. I do try to be a bit conservative on my advice though when someone mentions that they have never attempted a particular job. It's nice to make sure that each step you take results in a running engine when you are trying new things, hince my one variable at a time statement. That's one of the great things about this forum, there is always a number of options offered with good solid advice to allow for an informed decision.
JC
 
My first attempt at this problem will be this weekend with the distributor in. If I can get everything tested and running I will run away happy. If I find nothing but defeat and lower back pain, I will pull it and work from there. Be sure that I will post before I pull it, even if I am typing on my back in bed. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif
 
mrstinson

pulling the dizzy is not that tuff, even for a newbie.
a couple of things after you disconnet the battery.
1 Label ALL wires. that way there is no question later on.
2 remove the cap. turn the engine till the timing pointer is on the mark. Preferably top dead center(tdc).
3 note the EXACT position the rotor in relation to something on the block. Where is it pointing? also this will tell you where you are at on the engine stroke. If it is pointing to where the number one plug wire attaches on the cap then you are at tdc. if not, then you are 180° off on the number one piston. as long as you have not loosend up anything at this point, please rotate the crank one revolution back to the mark. Now you will be on Tdc.
4 before removing, scribe the base of the dizzy and the block. when reinstalling, this will at least put your timing close. note that when turning the dizzy the rotor stays fixed.
5 be aware the when you remove the dizzy the rotor will twist one way as the dizzy is pulled straight up. when reinstalling you must get this alignment to your reference on the block, excatly the same.
6 there may be shimming washers where the dizzy shoulder rests on the block, take note of these and dont lose any, They are kinda thin and may be easy to miss under the grime.
7 under no circumstances turn the moter after the dizz is removed.

did i miss anything fellas? Just trying to save this fellas back.

mark
 
Mark, as usual you were more than thorough. If he ends up pulling the points to replace the low tension wire then they will have to be set too. That's about all I can think of. Doesn't that wire come with a new set of points? I think I've got a set or two in the garage. I'll check after dinner.
JC
 
I don't think you missed a thing Mark.

If you do pull the dizzy and anything moves, don't worry, it's easy to set the static timing with items you already have.
 
I now know that that wire doesn't come with a new set of points. Had the Midget out for a little run to the hardware store yesterday afternoon. About a mile from the house, the engine started surging and cutting out. The tach was bouncing from 6K to 0. Finally after I got off the main road onto a side road, the engine couldn't make enough power to pull the car and finally just died. I figured I had lost the high tension lead between the coil and the dizzy or one of the wires that provide power to the coil. Wasn't any of my first guesses. I popped the cap off the dizzy and low and behold...I too have a 12 gauge wire soldered in the same place. Can't understand why I never noticed it before but it was broken right at the points. I shaved the wire with my teeth and pinched it back into place. The engine fired right up and I was able to get home without any other trouble. Guess I should follow my own advice...lol. Priced the wire last night. Only about 10 bucks from moss so looks like that will be on the next order..lol.
JC
 
A 12 gauge wire? That's awful big! For reference, extension cords are 16 to 18 gauge and the heavy gauge generator (brown) wire is typically 10 gauge.

Sorry about your car dying on you but at least you found the problem and were able to get home. $10 isn't bad for that wire. I've seen other places list them from $15-18.
 
Fat fingered the keyboard Doug, it was a 22 gauge wire...lol. I don't think there would have been room for a 12 gauge. Should have had that second cup of coffee before I decided to post this morning...
I couldn't stop thinking how ironic it was yesterday as I was stripping the wire to try and pinch it back under the nut.
JC
 
My dad once took a 12 Ga. to his Ford Bronco... It never ran right after that. Then, years later when trying to sight in a new scope on a 30-30 rifle, he shot the hood of his Nissan 4x4 (he was leaning across it - and the scope was WAYYYYYYY off!)
 
/ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
12 gauge /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/lol.gif
JC
 
When I was a kid the local European car parts store sold "Lucas No-Blow" fuses. They were pieces of 1/4" copper tubing cut 1" long glued to a modified cardboard display card. They added text that the "fuses" were compatible with 10 and 12 gauge wires.
 
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