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Decisions, Decisions ...

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Ray, I'm not sure what the model # of the tranny is in the Supra, I could find out from my friend, it is a Getrag 6 speed though. Of course a 4 speed automatic was an option, but not something you'd be interested in I bet! To tell the truth, I'd never considered a Toyota 6 cylinder in the TR6, but now that I do it makes alot of sense in keeping the spiritual "6 cylinderness" of the car intact. With the turbos it'll put out a heck of a lot more power than a BMW 6, even the M spec motor, and parts for it would probably be a good bit cheaper. If I remember correctly it's also an aluminum block and head, so the weight wouldn't be bad at all, probably a good bit lighter than the Triumph mill. Even at the stock power level (1997 spec was 320hp/315 torque) it would be an absolute rocket.

The blown 4.6 Cobra spec mod motor from the 03/04 Mustang Cobra would be a blast, but I think that it would end up being a monster in that little a car and downright scary to drive. Specs for that motor were 390hp/390 torque (@ a low 3500rpm!, gotta love those blowers). I'd think that would be enough torque to twist an unreinforced stock TR6 frame into a pretzel, and you can forget about making it work with the IRS. If you could somehow adapt the whole Cobra drivetrain, tranny rear and all into the TR6 that would be cool. The 03/04 Cobras were IRS cars after all, but that would be a massive undertaking I'm sure and would completely kill any remaining "Triumphness" of the car IMO since nearly everything underneath would be changed. Howver, that could certaining be considered a modern day Shelby Cobra, British body and chassis coupled with Ford hipo drivetrain.
 
Automatic? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/pukeface.gif I've driven too many of those as it is... You've just about talked me into the 'Toy motor' - I'll have to check on local availability.

I came to the same conclusion as you - the Cobra motor was just too much for an LBC (though I'm sure there's some who would disagree) Another factor is you'd have to do major sugery on the body to get those big heads into it. The IRS is a nice setup, but would be WAY too much work to fit into a TR. Still, the prospect of all that power under the hood ...
 
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I'm willing to consider a more 'modern' 6 because the British originated the DOHC 6 back in 1948 (so much for those 'clever' Japanese or Germans!)

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Give credit where credit is due: it wasn't the Germans or the Japanese, but the Italians....

As pointed out:

https://www.britishcarforum.com/ubbthread...;page=0#134963A

"little bit of history.When Henry Ford was building the model T, ALFA was building DOHC supercharged engines. The Jag DOHC engine was a copy of an ALFA engine."

I subsequently got into a little contretemps with that poster....
 
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Give credit where credit is due: it wasn't the Germans or the Japanese, but the Italians....

"little bit of history.When Henry Ford was building the model T, ALFA was building DOHC supercharged engines. The Jag DOHC engine was a copy of an ALFA engine."

I subsequently got into a little contretemps with that poster....

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Interesting - Maybe the Italians did invent DOHC, but to call the Jag engine a copy of the Alfa would be stretching things a bit - according to John Macartney (son of and former Standard-Triumph employee) the XK powerplant design was an evolution of a Standard sidevalve 6 cyl bought by Jaguar from Standard immediately post-war. I don't doubt they borrowed some ideas from everybody as they built it into a world-class engine /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif (doesn't everyone?)
 
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You've just about talked me into the 'Toy motor' - I'll have to check on local availability.


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HAHA, thats great! As long as you don't blame me when things get out of hand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

If you want to look at mods and stuff that are available for this motor try here, my buddy frequents this place:

www.mkiv.com/

It's a Supra site but they have a parts trader and whatnot, and theres tons of good tech stuff on their forums that applies to the engine itself. Gotta remember, that motor and car are basically the holy grail of the import tuner crowd (ever see fast and the furious?), all those kids driving Civics would kill for a Supra TT, so theres alot of info out there. A popular sleeper swap with these guys is this motor into a Lexus IS300. The IS comes from the factory with a detuned N/A version of this same motor, so a swap to the turbo spec motor isn't to involved. From what I understand there are quite a few 12 and 11 second IS300's out there.

If you do this you must post pics and document the buildup, the car will be sick.
 
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HAHA, thats great! As long as you don't blame me when things get out of hand. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/devilgrin.gif

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Have to have SOMEBODY to blame when my wife starts asking about the receipts ... and you just nominated yourself! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/jester.gif
 
Couple of things to think about.
The Toyota Cressada ran the same engine as the Supra, albeit detuned and non turbo. but It may be a REALLY cheap source for a strong running donor with all the wiring. The only other drawback is you'de still have to source a tranny 'cause almost all (if not all) of the Cressadas were automatics.
Also, After I get all my buying and selling of complete cars finished up, I may have a good frame and rear axle left over from a TR4A solid axle. It's the independant type "bell" frame, without the upper spring perch, adapted for a live axle and semi eleptic leaf springs. If you're intrested let me know
 
Good points Banjo - the question I have to ask myself is 'Do I really need 300+ hp for a daily driver?' When I started this search, my goal was to get about 200 hp and have it streetable. Thanks for the info about other sources for the engine, I only found 2 examples of the Supra and they were both more than $2000 apiece (used and no warranty)! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/eek.gif Drop me a note offline about the frame - you've peaked my interest!
 
How well will the Supra engine and/or the BMW inline 6 fit in the TR6's engine bay?

Along the same lines, are there any companies that make a new head for the TR6... possibly one that is a flow-through design (intake and exhaust on opposite sides)?
 
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How well will the Supra engine and/or the BMW inline 6 fit in the TR6's engine bay?

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I haven't measured the Supra engine yet, but the 'small 6' from BMW is practically a drop-in - and slightly lighter to boot!

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Along the same lines, are there any companies that make a new head for the TR6... possibly one that is a flow-through design (intake and exhaust on opposite sides)?

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I researched that path as well, and wasn't able to find any - even Moss (who's doing new heads for TR2-4, and crossflow heads for MGB) isn't offering anything. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif
 
Funny how this topic comes up. I am in the process of swapping a Toyots Supra twin turbo motor into my TR6. I bought the car when I was 19 (11 years ago) and it was far from original. I could go out and buy a period correct one for less cost than making this one correct. So when it came time for a rebuild the swap commenced.

The cool thing is that the engine is a 2.5L inline 6 and sounds exactly like a 6 motor, until it gets on boost.

As far as how it fits, everything is good but the battery shelf needs to be trimmed back 2-3 inches. (TR6 engine bay from cross bar to firewall 27 inches and the Supra engine is 28.5 inches long)

I always wanted a raw street legal race car and with 300+ RWHP I think I will have it.
 
Any chance of a writeup or pictures of what you're doing?
 
I would be happy to but I am about a month away from any pictures that will be worth anything. I am hoping to have it all done and painted by July-August. I am getting the frame and body media blasted to make metal work much easier and I just recieved my front clip last week (I need to pull the engine out of the clip). But I used a friends engine and a lot of research for fitment knowledge. The trickiest part I believe is getting all of the wiring and sensor feeds to the engine, not to mention many of the sensor cables need to be shielded and grounded. It is very complex and if it does not receive all inputs it will not run or remain in limp mode. But the engine is capable of 600hp on stock internals if you change the injectors and turbo.
 
btw the 2 supra engines that are worth anything are the 1JZ and the 2JZ, they will cost 3-7000 to get a good one depending on what they come with (transmission, ecu etc.) The 7M motors chronically blow main head gaskets.
 
I side with the earlier posts from Chris and Allan; an SAH tuned TR4 is period-modified, and while its not "original" it isn,t some backyard hotrodder, this is a recognised classic tuner like Lawrencetune or Downton, its like having a Coombs Jaguar.
There is intrinsic value in keeping the car as it was; though again, it is your car!
Simon.
 
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btw the 2 supra engines that are worth anything are the 1JZ and the 2JZ, they will cost 3-7000 to get a good one depending on what they come with (transmission, ecu etc.) The 7M motors chronically blow main head gaskets.

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That is good information to have, thanks for the heads-up /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/thumbsup.gif
 
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I side with the earlier posts from Chris and Allan; an SAH tuned TR4 is period-modified, and while its not "original" it isn,t some backyard hotrodder, this is a recognised classic tuner like Lawrencetune or Downton, its like having a Coombs Jaguar.
There is intrinsic value in keeping the car as it was; though again, it is your car!
Simon.

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A very good point Simon, and one I've been keeping in mind. That's why I'm talking instead of doing at this point.

When I bought it, I was looking for a TR250 because I wanted the 6 cyl, but couldn't just leave this forlorn looking '4A rusting away in the junkyard (got a really good deal too!) At the time, neither the owner nor I had any clue what 'SAH Tuned' meant.

So far, nothing I have changed on the car is permanent - it can all be return to it's original condition. But the point is coming to make a decision - do I preserve what I found, or do I build what I originally went looking for? /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/crazyeyes.gif
 
I know it doesn't matter what anyone else would do... but if the car's motor and all the main parts were restorable I would restore them... not necessarily 100% factory, but keep the original engine. I would then try to find a body and frame that needs an engine...

I would suspect that running gobs of torque through the stock frame would warp the frame so I would devise some sort of roll cage or addition frame support to prevent it from happening.

I personally like the idea of a TR6 that will smoke modern day cars! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/smile.gif I just really like the way they look, sound and handle!
 
It might not be stock but that is not where the value of the car is in this particular case. As stated before, it being and SAH modified car gives it provenance to possibly be worth more than an all original TR4A. Too bad you sold th wheels already because those are extremely rare period correct accessories. Lucky guy with the MGC I guess. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/frown.gif

It's actually not all that hard to increase the capabilites of the TR cars to keep up with modern cars and suprise quite a few of them. My TR6 has suprised many newer cars including new Mustangs. Power to weight is a wonderful thing. You just have to realize that unless you change the transmission gearing and rear end you will be gear limited as much as areodynamically limited. Most newer cars will runaway from even modified TR6's once you start to get over 80mph. Downside to the brick shape and short gearing. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/driving.gif

Oh, and the Triumph Engine that was a direct copy of an ALFA engine was in the pre-war Dolomite, when Triumph was still it's own company and not part of Standard). And it was copied with permission. That engine, in both cars is an absolute piece of ART and ingenious engineering.

Lastly, I'm absolutely the wrong guy to tell you to keep it stock, since my cars are and will be modified. Although I try to stick to the TSOA spirit of things. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/cheers.gif
 
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