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Dead in the water...

Nunyas

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Here's the 'skinny': I tried to leave work last night, and in the process I exited the parking lot a little "rambunctiously". By rambunctiously, I mean I exited the lot with zest, which resulted in the transmission banging against the tunnel (need to get new bushings for the transmission mounts), the rear suspension bottoming out as I left the lot, and the prompt application of 3/4 throttle as I turned onto the street. As I accelerated, the car "stalled" before I hit the '1-2' shift and won't restart. Stalled probably isn't the right word for it, as much as 'cut out' is.

Anyways, impromptu trouble shooting ensued as you all can imagine. I'm 90% certain something electrical happened during the various shocks the chassis absorbed during those brief few seconds.

The charge light lights. The starter turns the engine over. The pump is delivering fuel and maintaining pressure. The electrical connections to the starter are all solid. The fuses are good. The connections under the dash seem to be good. I have power to everything in the car, or so it seems. There's power at the coil. (And no Steve_S I did not turn the heater on /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/smile.gif )

What I have not checked yet is for spark. I have my tools with me today. So, I'll check for that during lunch or something. My car has been converted to a Crane XR700 ignition unit w/ optical pick up some time prior to my obtaining the car.

Does anyone have any tips, hints, or clues on other things I should check? Also, how can I determine if the XR700 needs replacing? I don't expect it to be bad, but it never hurts to know what to look for just in case.

Thanks for any advice you guys can provide!
 

Steve_S

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It may sound funny, but replace the rotor cap. You should already have one in the boot. They go without warning and they go often. It would be a bit of a coincidence that it happened during your spirited take-off but since it's so simple to change, it's worth doing.

Check for spark the old-fashioned way first. If no spark, check the EI unit. I'm not familiar with the Crane testing procedure, but I believe you need to pull the HT from the dizzy cap, hold it near ground, then jumper the signal wire and ground wire of the LT circuit. If it sparks, you're good and the problem is in the dizzy. If no spark, it's dead.

Again, I'm guessing this works on the crane as it does on the unit I've used.
 

DrEntropy

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Steve's right, that ~should~ work to isolate the problem to determine between dizz and "box". I'd additionally say pop the dizzy cap and check the alignment of the trigger sensor to the wheel, they aren't held in place with the most stable arrangement. A physical shock may have mis-aligned the silly "erector set" thing.
 

PeterC

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If you have an electronic tachometer, and you do, then watch the needle while you crank. If it moves, the primary ignition circuit is working, ie, points, condenser, coil. If it doesn't move, then a wire fell off, or the coil got disconnected, or something like that.

Peter C.
 
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Nunyas

Nunyas

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well... I did better checks during lunch.
<ul>[*]Checked for spark between coil and dist cap: good[*]Checked for spark at the spark plug: good[*]Rechecked for fuel pressure and fuel in the bowl: good[/list]At this point, I believe I have a blockage between the bowl and the jet or in the jet itself. I've resigned to having AAA take me home tonight, and letting the car be until Saturday. If I can't get it going on Saturday, then it'll have to wait until I come back from vacation and give it another go on Jan 6. Hopefully, I'll get it going again before I leave.

I guess it was just a coincidence that it stopped running when it did. Then again, maybe it was the shocks to the chassis that jarred something loose in the bowl and caused the blockage at the jet. What exactly is blocking the flow I do not know, and I won't know until the weekend (at the earliest).

Have I mentioned that I dislike the short days of winter?
 

DrEntropy

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Half as long, Steve! He's got a single HS6. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/wink.gif
 
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Nunyas

Nunyas

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I have 1 carb...;) it's dark out now; sun light is way better than any flash light. After tonight, the car will be at home, and I'll be getting home after dark for the rest of the week.

I pulled the lid off the bowl at lunch, all I could determine was that there is fuel in the bowl. It was too dark (over cast and ~trying~ to rain all day) to be able to see inside the bowl, let alone whether there was something blocking the jet tube at the bottom. Worse comes to worse, I may have to pull the jet tube and blow it clear... or switch to the spare I have at home.
 

Steve_S

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Pull the ig wire and crank the car. Then see if there is fresh gas on the plugs. Another thought... you sure the throttle didn't pop loose? Remember all those bad cables?
 

vping

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Maybe you disturbed some settlement in the tank and it go sucked up into the line.
 
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Nunyas

Nunyas

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I'm positive the throttle did not pop loose. The attachment configuration on the HS6 is different from the ZS (no silly little lugs crimped to the cable). And the pedal still feels normal; it would have dropped to the floor and stayed there if the cable came undone. Even if the cable did pop loose, the car should be able to idle, at the very least.

The #1 plug was bone dry when I pulled it after cranking the engine over several times.
No amount of cranking the engine could produce the distinct odor of raw fuel evaporating out the exhaust.

I pulled the air filter off, and could not smell gasoline in the throat of the carb, even with the choke all the way open.

So, I'm fairly certain now, that I have a blockage in the jet/bowl.
 

RickB

Yoda
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Start with flow.
Do you get fuel with the key on?
You know the drill, be methodical & see if you get it from the tank forward & find out where it stops.

Or dive right in the middle & see what you can see from there. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/devilgrin.gif
 

Guinn

Jedi Warrior
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As a test to see if an engine would start I have pulled the filter, squirted it with a good supply of gasoline ( not starter fluid, please), slapped it back on and cranked the engine. Any start, even for two or three cylinders popping, will tell you that you have a fuel problem, right now.

(If you feel lucky and not too smart, go ahead and use the starter fluid.)

Guinn
 

DrEntropy

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This daylight deprivation thing is always a pain. Alternative to pulling the tube might be a good "back flush" from the needle seat with a "straw" on a can of carb cleaner. With appropriate fuel soaking material in/around the lidless bowl, of course.

You've had that carb in bits enough times you should be able to field strip it and reassemble in minutes, by Braille!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
 
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Nunyas

Nunyas

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DrEntropy said:
You've had that carb in bits enough times you should be able to field strip it and reassemble in minutes, by Braille!
/bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/jester.gif
That may be so, but I still won't know what I did with those pesky little screws after I take them off. Heaven forbid I ~drop~ one in the dark... /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/nonod.gif
 
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Nunyas

Nunyas

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well, I finally got some time to check some more today.

I did one last attempt to start the car without touching anything and no go. Since I had already checked spark at the dist, spark at the plugs, fuel line pressure at the carb, and fuel in the float bowl, I went straight to the item I thought was causing trouble - the jet. I undid the choke screw from it and pulled the jet out of the bottom of the HS-6. The interesting thing I noticed as I did this was no fuel came out even though the top of the jet was lower than the bottom of the bowl. Then I tipped the jet over to the side a good bit until some fuel came out. It was nearly horizontal before fuel came out, but I went ahead and tipped it all the way over so the top of the jet was pointing down to make sure whatever was blocking it got cleared out.

I reinserted the jet into the bottom of the carb and refastened the choke to the jet. With the air filter still off, I hopped in the driver seat, applied the normal amount of choke and turned the key. WALLA! It fired up faster than a fuel injected car on a warm day (less than 1 compression cycle)! /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif I rev'ed the engine a couple of times, shut the choke off, and rev'ed her a couple more times. Then let it idle for a minute or two, and it did it smoothly at about 750 RPM.

Satisfied, I shut the engine down and reattached the air filter, stowed the tools, and buttoned everything up. Started the car back up and took her out for a spin. After about 5 miles I am certain that I cleared the blockage, and glad that I got it taken care of before I left on my trip.

I'm slightly irked that I didn't have any good lighting during the week to do this, because it took me all of 5 minutes to get the car running again. But without good light I would not have been able to reattach the choke lever to the jet.

I'm sort of surprised at how sudden the engine stopped when I got the blockage in the jet. It was almost like turning the key off, only with all the electrics still on. Then again, thinking about it, having a blockage in the jet cuts the fuel to the engine faster than any other failing fuel supply item... kinda like having a dead fuel injector on a modern car... only a LOT less expensive to fix /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif

Anywho, I'm glad she's running again. I get to celebrate the New Year by driving to work when I come back from vacation. /bcforum/images/%%GRAEMLIN_URL%%/laugh.gif
 

Steve_S

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Great news! Be sure to check an rubber bits in the carb for deterioration. Ethanol-laced fuels can take them apart piece by piece. My BGT nearly burned to the ground because of this problem.

As for the light situation, the PO of my car had the foresight to install a period Lucas lamp in the engine bay. It comes in VERY handy when needed.
 

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DrEntropy

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HOO-rah.
 

jlaird

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Nice Rob, see ya soon.

Hay, one of those battery powered lights that goes on your forhead would work well.
 

davester

Jedi Trainee
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jlaird said:
Nice Rob, see ya soon.

Hay, one of those battery powered lights that goes on your forhead would work well.

You bet! This is now one of my favorite tools for working in tight places...highly recommended (get the aimable version):

News_182_2_9.jpg


though often supplemented with this:

BaycoHalogen-SL-1003.jpg
 
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