Datsun tranny help please

[histerical]

The tube that the TOB rides on that's part of the front cover on my tranny broke free and has been rattling around in there. Any leads on a replacement cover would be much appreciated.
Thanks, Bill

 

[Gerard]

Bill,

I may have one, but I'll need to know more about your setup. If you have a Rivergate, I'll need to know what engine it's mated with. If this seems like an odd question, it's because certain combinations with the Rivergate kit require modifying the length of that tube on the front cover. Once thing I can tell you for certain, the part is no longer available new.

 

[histerical]

Thanks Gerard. The " bearing slide tube" measures a hair ( 1/32) under 2" from the face of the cover. It is a Rivergate set-up on a 1275.

 

[Gerard]

The one I have has been trimmed down to just under 1-3/4", which is what's done for the 1098.

Thanks Gerard. The " bearing slide tube" measures a hair ( 1/32) under 2" from the face of the cover. It is a Rivergate set-up on a 1275.

 

[histerical]

The problem would be that the carrier would run off the edge, though I could probably shim the bearing off the carrier by 3/16". I'd have to measure the free play but I recall taking a lot of length out of the push rod. I think I can get the tube welded back on as it indexes fairly well and there's enough room between it and the arms for a small bead.
I got this trans 9 years ago and it looked almost like NOS. The guy said it had been on a shelf since '84 and it was stunningly smooth and quiet. I changed the oil after maybe 50 miles and it looked good. The next season, it started to get noisy one drive so I limped it home and put in quart. No sign of a real leak. It sounded fine but certainly not as quiet as it had been and it has never lost oil again. Then it started getting noisy in neutral but would quit when the TOB contacted. What I found when I just opened it up was the pilot bushing was loose, the tube was broken, and the shim under the cover had spun, which means the bearing spun. If you have a shim I need one.
I can't quite figure why the tube broke. Do you think the pilot backed out and the shaft whipped enough to hit the tube? There's a lot of wear in the end of the tube from the splines on the shaft but that could have happened after it let go..
I do have a bearing and seal kit to put in the trans. The TOB seems fine but I am replacing it and the pressure plate which is pretty worn on the fingers. I bet that carrier was really jumping around in there. I'll try Rivergate for a cover and a new pilot as well. I think I'll loctite the bushing in.
Thanks.

 

[Rut]

Give Will a call...can't say enough good about him! He's a great resource for parts as well as kits and he'll help you if he can.
Rut

 

[Gerard]

No question, you need the additional length or the carrier will tip off the end. The 1098 has a much taller clutch cover, so needs to be trimmed to fit. This is not a modification that needs to be done with my kits, regardless of engine size. You'd either need to weld yours or fashion an extra bit of sleeve onto this one, which is excellent otherwise. I may do that at some point since these are now unobtanium.

What you describe is certainly possible due to a missing, loose or out of tolerance pilot bush. Minor inaccuracies in the plate machining, causing the input shaft to be slightly off center are known to cause what you describe as well. I have had a lot of people contact me with this broken front cover, which is why I'm down to this last one. Until recently, I was able to still get them new, but no more. I should have stocked up on a few more.

The problem would be that the carrier would run off the edge, though I could probably shim the bearing off the carrier by 3/16". I'd have to measure the free play but I recall taking a lot of length out of the push rod. I think I can get the tube welded back on as it indexes fairly well and there's enough room between it and the arms for a small bead.
I got this trans 9 years ago and it looked almost like NOS. The guy said it had been on a shelf since '84 and it was stunningly smooth and quiet. I changed the oil after maybe 50 miles and it looked good. The next season, it started to get noisy one drive so I limped it home and put in quart. No sign of a real leak. It sounded fine but certainly not as quiet as it had been and it has never lost oil again. Then it started getting noisy in neutral but would quit when the TOB contacted. What I found when I just opened it up was the pilot bushing was loose, the tube was broken, and the shim under the cover had spun, which means the bearing spun. If you have a shim I need one.
I can't quite figure why the tube broke. Do you think the pilot backed out and the shaft whipped enough to hit the tube? There's a lot of wear in the end of the tube from the splines on the shaft but that could have happened after it let go..
I do have a bearing and seal kit to put in the trans. The TOB seems fine but I am replacing it and the pressure plate which is pretty worn on the fingers. I bet that carrier was really jumping around in there. I'll try Rivergate for a cover and a new pilot as well. I think I'll loctite the bushing in.
Thanks.

 

[histerical]

"I have had a lot of people contact me with this broken front cover, which is why I'm down to this last one."
Very interesting. So, these trannies survived duty in Datsuns and come apart in Spridgets ?
Upon further examination it appears ( it's been 9 years) that I had epoxied ( Marine Tex) the bushing into the crank shaft so it must have been a loose fit from the start. Unlike any other bushing I have ever dealt with, the Rivergate one does not fit completely down into the recess in the crank but is stepped so a section of it is inserted and part of it is unsupported in the bore. Any movement of the input shaft might cause it to rock and loosen up. My bushing shows a small crack in the unsupported section as well. I wonder why they didn't mill up a normal bushing ( that might have been a bit longer) to be pressed into the crank. ( Hey Gerard, do you think you could mill up one for me ?) I'll contact Will this week.
I don't know if it is a factor, but this motor looks to have been modified. I have not opened it up, but I got compression readings up around 165 and I can also see that it has been ported. Maybe too much torque for the input shaft ? I have felt this car was built in the 80's as a racer of some kind with its 195 tires, small steering wheel, and the 45 DCOE it came with ( I went to a DD Weber and now SU's) . The tranny is also my addition.
It seems to have always had a pinging problem and I have had to dial the advance way back ( I don't remember where it is set now) . It also has a very annoying run-on habit so I am going to remove the head to check for carbon and I'll measure the bores as well. The plan was to just re-build the tranny and clean and paint the motor but now I also have to deal with the broken front cover, the worn pressure plate fingers, and a very chewed up ring gear . The plate and the ring were new 9 seasons ago.
EDIT : looking into the ports and plug holes, the tops of the pistons are relatively clean as are the valves.

 

[nomad]

Gerard, It simply amazes me that these transmissions and engines were being made and fitted to vehicles in South Africa and Indonesia less than a decade ago and we in the US can't get parts! What's up with the great and glorious "free trade" and "new world order"! We need someone who can speak Japanese to ask Nissan exactly why we can't get parts! Is it just as in so many other things....not in the computer so doesn't exist!

Kurt.

 

[histerical]

Could I have 'modified' the bushing for some reason back then ? Does it look correct ? Could it really have been that loose ?( it measure 1.625) Did I crack it ? I honestly don't remember.....

 

[Gerard]

My recollection is that the majority of instances, the broken covers came from people with Rivergate conversions. I recall in one or two instances, the gearboxes were purchased that way (so don't know the their history), but I think they were possibly badly worn rather than broken, and so were more of "before I put this one in...". Those were going to be installed using my kit.

I have my own high quality pilot bushings made to my own design, by expert machinists. In six years, I've not had reports of any failures, except were people damaged them in the installation process (user error).

"I have had a lot of people contact me with this broken front cover, which is why I'm down to this last one."
Very interesting. So, these trannies survived duty in Datsuns and come apart in Spridgets ?
Upon further examination it appears ( it's been 9 years) that I had epoxied ( Marine Tex) the bushing into the crank shaft so it must have been a loose fit from the start. Unlike any other bushing I have ever dealt with, the Rivergate one does not fit completely down into the recess in the crank but is stepped so a section of it is inserted and part of it is unsupported in the bore. Any movement of the input shaft might cause it to rock and loosen up. My bushing shows a small crack in the unsupported section as well. I wonder why they didn't mill up a normal bushing ( that might have been a bit longer) to be pressed into the crank. ( Hey Gerard, do you think you could mill up one for me ?) I'll contact Will this week.
I don't know if it is a factor, but this motor looks to have been modified. I have not opened it up, but I got compression readings up around 165 and I can also see that it has been ported. Maybe too much torque for the input shaft ? I have felt this car was built in the 80's as a racer of some kind with its 195 tires, small steering wheel, and the 45 DCOE it came with ( I went to a DD Weber and now SU's) . The tranny is also my addition.
It seems to have always had a pinging problem and I have had to dial the advance way back ( I don't remember where it is set now) . It also has a very annoying run-on habit so I am going to remove the head to check for carbon and I'll measure the bores as well. The plan was to just re-build the tranny and clean and paint the motor but now I also have to deal with the broken front cover, the worn pressure plate fingers, and a very chewed up ring gear . The plate and the ring were new 9 seasons ago.
EDIT : looking into the ports and plug holes, the tops of the pistons are relatively clean as are the valves.

 

[Gerard]

Hi Kurt,

Yeah, I know, they only went in to those pickups used in SA. I can't say for certain that this part is not available in Japan. The problem is that none of the dealers want to deal with these old parts, and based on what I hear from people around the country, Nissan parts departments either don't have the ability to look up this old stuff or they are directed my management/ownership not to deal with it.

Here is San Francisco, I had a parts guy that had been around for a very long time at this dealership. I could get parts from him, and he would frequently order parts from Japan if necessary. It would take about a month to get them, but they would arrive eventually. A couple years ago, the dealership was sold to new owners, and, at least as far as the parts department went, they replaced all new employees. The new guy that replaced him informed me that he was not allowed to order any parts from Japan. However, I can also confirm that even with the previous guy who would order stuff from Japan, that parts I had ordered previously, had been discontinued. I seems to me the cover may have been one of them, I know for sure that the shift levers and some other items became NLA, even from Japan.

Gerard, It simply amazes me that these transmissions and engines were being made and fitted to vehicles in South Africa and Indonesia less than a decade ago and we in the US can't get parts! What's up with the great and glorious "free trade" and "new world order"! We need someone who can speak Japanese to ask Nissan exactly why we can't get parts! Is it just as in so many other things....not in the computer so doesn't exist!

Kurt.

 

[Gerard]

My bushings are much more substation than what you show. I don't see where it's cracked though.

View attachment 49096View attachment 49098View attachment 49099

Could I have 'modified' the bushing for some reason back then ? Does it look correct ? Could it really have been that loose ?( it measure 1.625) Did I crack it ? I honestly don't remember.....

 

[nomad]

Well, if folks become desperate the cover wouldn't be that hard to make. I gave a bad Datsun transmission to a friend to see if he could repair it. He got back to me claiming that all he found inside was junk so he's going to give it back. Guess I can always use it for parts. I know I could use the tail shaft housing.

Kurt.

 

[Gerard]

I'm sure I could have them remade, but I'd need to pay for somewhere between 10 and 20 up front, and I don't think anyone would like the price.

Well, if folks become desperate the cover wouldn't be that hard to make. I gave a bad Datsun transmission to a friend to see if he could repair it. He got back to me claiming that all he found inside was junk so he's going to give it back. Guess I can always use it for parts. I know I could use the tail shaft housing.

Kurt.

 

[nomad]

Yes, if someone actually thought they should get payed to make them!:smile-new:

A few years ago I was going to outfit my shop with some old machine tools but never got around to it. Now it seems others have come up with the same idea and good used lathes and mill's aren't cheap anymore. I've got a little lathe but not much a person can do on it.

Kurt.

 

[RichBall]

Gerard,
Are the 60A and 60L front covers interchangeable?

Bill,
If so, I have an unmodified front cover for the 60L available.

 

[histerical]

Rich, PM sent.

 

[Gerard]

Yep, they should be.

Gerard,
Are the 60A and 60L front covers interchangeable?

Bill,
If so, I have an unmodified front cover for the 60L available.