Cutch does not engage.....HELPPPPPP!

[triumph_tim]

Again I want to thank all those that responded to my last post about the clutch. I used the info people gave me but after speaking with a mechanic only ended up using BPNW to purchase a water pump. This one is tough, If any one can tell me anything I could sure use it. My clutch is either completely gone which is unlikely or there is more of a problem. I press the clutch in and put it into gear and let off and nothing happens, not even a sound. Then I can also go through all gears without the clutch depressed, would that matter if the clutch was out. Its almost like nothing is attached to the clutch, Is there anyone else that has had this problem? Please let me now, as getting my car to the mechanic is going to be a headache all it's own. I will look at all suggestions. i am mechanically inclined enough to do most anything but transmission and trany removal and dismantal, so Im trying to rule out as much as possible. thanks for the help.

 

[TR3driver]

Always helps if you mention in your post what car you are talking about.

Unfortunately there isn't a lot you can do without pulling the tranny. Put it up on some jack stands and try pushing the clutch pushrod back into the slave cylinder. If you can push it in enough to get some freeplay, then the problem is inside the bellhousing.

Several people in the local club have had similar problems in past years. IIRC, they were all failed clutch plates. The thin metal pieces that carry the friction surface simply broke away from the splined hub.

I also once had a bad throwout bearing get so hot that the carrier locked to the gearbox front cover. In my case it had the opposite effect (the clutch was stuck in the engaged position), but it could have been released.

Sorry, can't help with the transportation problem, except to note that a rented tow dolly works well for short distances and low speeds. For longer distances or freeway speeds, you should disconnect the driveshaft.

If it's not too far, it might even be worth joining AAA to get the free tow. ISTR a standard membership is good for 15 miles right away.

 

[CJD]

Yep...I've been there a couple times. Both times the clutch had shelled.

The only thing you can really do is watch the linkage while someone else cycles the pedal...just to make sure everything is moving as it should. To be honest, I cannot think of a scenario where the linkage would stick in the dissengaged position...but it can't hurt to check.

Sorry...

John

 

[triumph_tim]

thanks. Yeah its a 1974 Triumph tr6. Good suggestions. Sounds like I have to pull the trany to look. Still though does it make sense that I can put it in all gears without the clutch in? Also what is "Shelled" ? sorry guess im still learning the lingo here.

 

[DNK]

Any chance the pin has broken and is keeping the bearing away from the motor?

 

[CJD]

Shelled is the term we used racing...when the part looks good on the outside, but pretty much everything inside has dissentigrated. As in - not a good thing.

It takes a lot of force to disengage a clutch. That's why, if it disengages on it's own, it is highly unlikely that the internals are intact. Like Don and Randall say, there is a very remote chance that the linkage has a problem that is holding the throwout bearing in...but I would not get my hopes up. The majority of linkage problems will result in the clutch sticking engaged, not dissengaged like your case. Other than the outside linkage...anything else that could cause it to stick would require removing the tranny to get to it.

I guess there is a possibility that the hydraulics are not venting, so the cylinder is remaining pressurized. You will know when you cycle the clutch while somone looks at the linkage to make sure it moves correctly.

John

 

[triumph_tim]

All sounds like no getting away from pulling the tranny. This will be a first, but doesnt seem to hard. Any suggestions before my attempt that othjers have learned doing it. Not looking forward to pulling it throught the floor of my car.

 

[TR3driver]

Most of the work can be done solo, but it's best if you can find a friend to help for the actual R&R of the gearbox. It's not all that heavy, but it is very awkward working under the dash. I've done it (on my TR3) myself, but it's easier with another pair of hands. For installation, a couple of headless 5/16 bolts will help too (as guide pins).

I'm still not convinced that pulling it out through the interior is the easiest way. If you have the hoist, room, etc. I have a suspicion that removing the engine and transmission as a unit actually works out easier overall. It certainly eases the sometimes frustrating task of mating them back together. That said, I've always done it through the interior (and had second thoughts every time )

Have some baling wire handy when you remove the clutch slave, so you can tie the pushrod into the cylinder. That way you won't have to open the hydraulic system and bleed it afterwards. The cylinder can just hang on the hose. (This is my Stag, which is a bit different, but the concept is the same)

It's best to have a clutch alignment tool, but the plastic one I got from Moss some years ago proved to be worse than useless because it was so undersize. See if you can borrow a (ruined) input shaft instead. If not, just feel carefully all around the gap between the splined hole and the end of the crankshaft. If it feels even all the way around, it's probably close enough.

Make sure you put back the dowel pins or (as original) dowel bolts. They are so frequently missing that some people don't even realize why those two holes are a funny size. They are also a very snug fit, so put them in first and don't be surprised if you have to wiggle or tap a bit to get things together.

 

[TR3driver]

Any chance the pin has broken and is keeping the bearing away from the motor?

I'd say that borders on being impossible, Don. The broken pin would have to jam with the fork rotated forward relative to the shaft so far that the clutch slave is bottomed and the clutch is still released. I don't see any way for it to get into that position, even if the pin would jam there.

But in an infinite universe, all things are possible no matter how unlikely.

 

[DanB]

Tim,

How does the clutch pedal feel? Is the lever on the transmission moving when you work the pedal? If so, start taking the car apart. Since it is your first time, go ahead and remove both seats. Then the center console thing, and take the carpet up. Unbolt the bolts all around the transmission cover. If it is an overdrive car, you may have to loosen the handbrake handle, but you might be able to get the cover past it if it is pulled up all the way and the gear lever in reverse. Then you can unbolt the drive shaft and rear mount, block the engine up, and unbolt the starter and all the other bolts around the bell housing. You can then pull the tranny out through the cockpit. Inspect the forks and throw out bearing, and the pin Don was referring to. Chances are they are okay, it is the pressure plate that is suspect. Remove it from the flywheel. It may come off in pieces. Also, your clutch disk might be shot. It is best to replace them together, since you have it apart. A new throw out bearing is a good idea too.

I hope this helps. Good luck!

Dan B

 

[triumph_tim]

Thanks for the tips and the pics. Im going to attempt the dismantle starting tonite and I will let everyone know what I come across and what happens for those this may happen to in the future. Wish me luck and I will use everyones advice as much as possible.

 

[hondo402000]

any possibility that your moving the shift lever but really not moving the gears? like the inside of the tranny, the shift levers are loose on the rods and so your not actually shifting gears just moving the gear shift?

Hondo

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

...still, before pulling the transmission, I'd have a helper push the pedal while I watched the clutch shaft from under the car, just to be sure something isn't jammed. It doesn't travel far, but the rod should move at least 3/4".

Pulling the tranny on a TR6 isn't that difficult. Last time I pulled mine it only took a few hours -without help, it might have been less. The most difficult part, is getting to the two starter bolts. My hands are too big, you can't reach the front and back at the same time and the cat is no help at all. Lifting it out and back in is a bit of a work out, but if you plan it right, it's over quickly.

Be safe. Be sure the battery is disconnected, the car is lifted at the front, something is supporting the back of the engine before you pull the transmission away...

 

[TR3driver]

The most difficult part, is getting to the two starter bolts. My hands are too big, you can't reach the front and back at the same time

FWIW, I got tired of fighting with that upper bolt, and put a Helicoil into the gearbox flange. Worked a treat, even with the relatively crowded engine compartment on a TR3. I can hold the starter in place and install the bottom bolt from under the car, then use a looong extension and magnetic socket to install the upper bolt, even though I can't get my hand down there (without removing the carb linkage).

 

[TexasKnucklehead]

One of our club members recently installed a hi-torque starter and had trouble as well. He used a box end wrench on the engine/forward side of the top bolt and tightened from the transmission/other side. Now the wrench is tightened/torqued into position between the block and the bolt, such that it will not come out. I suggested he loosen the bolt, so he could retrieve the wrench, but the owner insists that it's prepared for the next time he needs to take out the starter. That wrench has been wedged in there for a few hundred miles so far...

 

[SkinnedKnuckles]

Now the wrench is tightened/torqued into position between the block and the bolt, such that it will not come out...(snip) the owner insists that it's prepared for the next time he needs to take out the starter. That wrench has been wedged in there for a few hundred miles so far...

LOL - That's one way of looking at it, I guess.

 

[mrv8q]

But in an infinite universe, all things are possible, no matter how unlikely.

Randall, I love that!