-
Hi Guest!
You can help ensure that British Car Forum (BCF) continues to provide a great place to engage in the British car hobby! If you find BCF a beneficial community, please consider supporting our efforts with a subscription.
There are some perks with a member upgrade!**Upgrade Now**
(PS: Subscribers don't see this gawd-aweful banner
Hey - did you know if you click on the title of a thread it will take you to the first unread post since you last visited that thread?
but were afraid to ask: 
STOP!! Never post your email address in open forums. Bots can "harvest" your email! If you must share your email use a Private Message or use the 
smilie in place of the real @
Pretty Please - add it to our Events forum(s) and add to the calendar! >> 
Could We Design a New Spridget?
- Thread starter MGA Steve
- Start date
Share this page
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
I think they stuff the whole Cadillac enchilada up in there...I know he buys wrecked Caddy's & uses them for the conversion...here's a link to his "how-to" <https://www.thefierofactory.com/cad.htm>
MattP
Jedi Knight
Offline
Cool thread.
(Exceptional prattling follows)
I have actually given this a bit of thought and research. When the MINI came out Car&Driver (I think it was) ran a design contest for reviving a classic marque or car for modern production. I will try do dig out my designs and get them posted, but it borrowed heavily on the Original AH Bugeye using some of the new Lexan-based products, like the Corbin Merlin. I also designed it around a watercooled V twin from that car. Routed through a Motorcycle tranny to a shaft similar to the BMW or Ural to a shaft drive. Like the original I was looking at a lot of aftermarket tinkering going on. Corbin claimed that their engine was mostly off the shelf, and the parts were cheap. A tuned version could be brought to the 150 hp range before supercharging.
The body tub would be strategically reinforced to aid stiffness and impact protection, side beams ect. The roll bar would be an intregal part of this, as more of an exposed frame member than an add-on. It was flat and the top would more click in than foldup, more like the old T-tops, but one peice without the center bar. I found the design on an unused protype of a new alfa spyder on the design house's website.
Disk brakes all around with an optional ABS system. I didn't get too deep into the suspension, I only discovered the contest a week before the due date.
I saw a good chance to reduce some weight in the instruments and computer. It was one of the few areas I let the design splurge a bit, and went with the idea of a LCD display for the whole range. Basic models would just come with the b/w basics. Numbers ect. An optional package would allow for simulated dials and more info displays.
I stuck to off the shelf bits wherever possible, to minimize development costs, and if my totally untrained figurings were in any ballpark, it would market for about 17,795 sticker. This is without several of the amenities that a mainstream car would need, but all the basics to squeek past the saftey and emmisions inspectors. The final weight would be in the 1200lbs range. With the 150hp tune on the engine, that gives a power to weight ratio of less than 10 to 1.
It was a lot of fun to design and dream, but modern marketability for a bouncy little car without a trunk or roll-up windows, untried engine and tranny combo, no AC, minimal comforts, would be too slight. But it would be one cool ride.
MattP
(Exceptional prattling follows)
I have actually given this a bit of thought and research. When the MINI came out Car&Driver (I think it was) ran a design contest for reviving a classic marque or car for modern production. I will try do dig out my designs and get them posted, but it borrowed heavily on the Original AH Bugeye using some of the new Lexan-based products, like the Corbin Merlin. I also designed it around a watercooled V twin from that car. Routed through a Motorcycle tranny to a shaft similar to the BMW or Ural to a shaft drive. Like the original I was looking at a lot of aftermarket tinkering going on. Corbin claimed that their engine was mostly off the shelf, and the parts were cheap. A tuned version could be brought to the 150 hp range before supercharging.
The body tub would be strategically reinforced to aid stiffness and impact protection, side beams ect. The roll bar would be an intregal part of this, as more of an exposed frame member than an add-on. It was flat and the top would more click in than foldup, more like the old T-tops, but one peice without the center bar. I found the design on an unused protype of a new alfa spyder on the design house's website.
Disk brakes all around with an optional ABS system. I didn't get too deep into the suspension, I only discovered the contest a week before the due date.
I saw a good chance to reduce some weight in the instruments and computer. It was one of the few areas I let the design splurge a bit, and went with the idea of a LCD display for the whole range. Basic models would just come with the b/w basics. Numbers ect. An optional package would allow for simulated dials and more info displays.
I stuck to off the shelf bits wherever possible, to minimize development costs, and if my totally untrained figurings were in any ballpark, it would market for about 17,795 sticker. This is without several of the amenities that a mainstream car would need, but all the basics to squeek past the saftey and emmisions inspectors. The final weight would be in the 1200lbs range. With the 150hp tune on the engine, that gives a power to weight ratio of less than 10 to 1.
It was a lot of fun to design and dream, but modern marketability for a bouncy little car without a trunk or roll-up windows, untried engine and tranny combo, no AC, minimal comforts, would be too slight. But it would be one cool ride.
MattP
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
I'd buy one!
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
ooops, sorry, wrong thread!
OP
MGA Steve
Jedi Warrior
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by tony barnhill:
ooops, sorry, wrong thread!
Originally posted by MattP:
...roll bar would be an intregal part of this, as more of an exposed frame member than an add-on. It was flat and the top would more click in than foldup, more like the old T-tops, but one peice without the center bar.<hr></blockquote>
Tony, does that mean you wouldn't want one?
Matt, you just made it a lot cooler--$17,795 sticker, 1200lb range, 150hp engine, power to weight ratio <10:1. Count me in! When does it go into production?
Also, I would think that using that motorcycle transmission would make it a snap to install a paddle shifter, or even steering wheel buttons, instead of a gearshift lever. Wouldn't that be fun for racing!
That design of the flat roll bar with the drop-in top sounds just like the Targa top on the Porsche 914 I had once. The removable roof section clipped into the trunk when stowed.
By the way, we aren't the only ones trying to come up with a viable design for an "old" model. Take a look at the December issue of "Popular Hot Rodding" for a 19-year old's design for a new Camaro--it's a great combination of nostalgia and modern streamlining!
Glad you guys are getting into this thread. It's even more fun than designing Tony's second-story "parking garage."
Steve
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]</p>
ooops, sorry, wrong thread!
Originally posted by MattP:
...roll bar would be an intregal part of this, as more of an exposed frame member than an add-on. It was flat and the top would more click in than foldup, more like the old T-tops, but one peice without the center bar.<hr></blockquote>
Tony, does that mean you wouldn't want one?
Matt, you just made it a lot cooler--$17,795 sticker, 1200lb range, 150hp engine, power to weight ratio <10:1. Count me in! When does it go into production?
Also, I would think that using that motorcycle transmission would make it a snap to install a paddle shifter, or even steering wheel buttons, instead of a gearshift lever. Wouldn't that be fun for racing!
That design of the flat roll bar with the drop-in top sounds just like the Targa top on the Porsche 914 I had once. The removable roof section clipped into the trunk when stowed.
By the way, we aren't the only ones trying to come up with a viable design for an "old" model. Take a look at the December issue of "Popular Hot Rodding" for a 19-year old's design for a new Camaro--it's a great combination of nostalgia and modern streamlining!
Glad you guys are getting into this thread. It's even more fun than designing Tony's second-story "parking garage."
Steve
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]</p>
tony barnhill
Great Pumpkin - R.I.P
Offline
Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeellllllllll, when you put it that way!
OP
MGA Steve
Jedi Warrior
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MattP:
. . . a bouncy little car without a trunk or roll-up windows, untried engine and tranny combo, no AC, minimal comforts. . . But it would be one cool ride.<hr></blockquote>
Matt,
I just realized that you had perfectly described my first-year ('56) MGA and, yea, it really is a cool car!
Can you see the bugs on my teeth? Sorry--just can't stop smiling when I'm driving it!
Steve
. . . a bouncy little car without a trunk or roll-up windows, untried engine and tranny combo, no AC, minimal comforts. . . But it would be one cool ride.<hr></blockquote>
Matt,
I just realized that you had perfectly described my first-year ('56) MGA and, yea, it really is a cool car!
Steve
MattP
Jedi Knight
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MGA Steve:
Count me in! When does it go into production?
Also, I would think that using that motorcycle transmission would make it a snap to install a paddle shifter, or even steering wheel buttons, instead of a gearshift lever. Wouldn't that be fun for racing!
That design of the flat roll bar with the drop-in top sounds just like the Targa top on the Porsche 914 I had once. The removable roof section clipped into the trunk when stowed.
Steve
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]<hr></blockquote>
Production? Just after my lottery ticket comes in.
Paddle shifter? That was my thought. I was thinking that would not only make it more fun, but shave some weight/size as not as much room would have to be allowed for the throw.
The 914 was one of my inspirations for looking at that kind of top. I would add in something about ditching the back glass as well. In the design, the top would either remove or flip and lock into a sort of fast-back position. I really liked the look of it on the firm's website. It was also plastic, so I thought that it might be nifty to offer in a translucent. I thought it might be kinda nifty for people to be able to order a see-through top in the shade of their body panels.
Anyone have any thoughts on the suspension? That was one of the major holes in my design, due to time constraints.
MattP
Count me in! When does it go into production?
Also, I would think that using that motorcycle transmission would make it a snap to install a paddle shifter, or even steering wheel buttons, instead of a gearshift lever. Wouldn't that be fun for racing!
That design of the flat roll bar with the drop-in top sounds just like the Targa top on the Porsche 914 I had once. The removable roof section clipped into the trunk when stowed.
Steve
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]
[ 11-11-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]<hr></blockquote>
Production? Just after my lottery ticket comes in.
Paddle shifter? That was my thought. I was thinking that would not only make it more fun, but shave some weight/size as not as much room would have to be allowed for the throw.
The 914 was one of my inspirations for looking at that kind of top. I would add in something about ditching the back glass as well. In the design, the top would either remove or flip and lock into a sort of fast-back position. I really liked the look of it on the firm's website. It was also plastic, so I thought that it might be nifty to offer in a translucent. I thought it might be kinda nifty for people to be able to order a see-through top in the shade of their body panels.
Anyone have any thoughts on the suspension? That was one of the major holes in my design, due to time constraints.
MattP
OP
MGA Steve
Jedi Warrior
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MattP:
Anyone have any thoughts on the suspension? That was one of the major holes in my design, due to time constraints.<hr></blockquote>
Matt,
Check out the Suzuki Website in the earlier posting for some ideas on modern mini-sports car (or "Midget" sports car) suspension design. That Suzuki has less horsepower, but more weight, so the suspension might be a good match.
Nial ("aeronca65t") races Spridgets--send him an E-mail and ask him what type of suspension he would like to see in an entry-level sports car.
Steve
[ 11-12-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]</p>
Anyone have any thoughts on the suspension? That was one of the major holes in my design, due to time constraints.<hr></blockquote>
Matt,
Check out the Suzuki Website in the earlier posting for some ideas on modern mini-sports car (or "Midget" sports car) suspension design. That Suzuki has less horsepower, but more weight, so the suspension might be a good match.
Nial ("aeronca65t") races Spridgets--send him an E-mail and ask him what type of suspension he would like to see in an entry-level sports car.
Steve
[ 11-12-2003: Message edited by: MGA Steve ]</p>
aeronca65t
Great Pumpkin
Offline
Steve:
You might faint when you hear what type of suspension I like (but maybe not....my first street car was a '56 MGA, so we may be on a similar wavelength).
Anyway, my favorite true classic roadster is the Bugatti Type 35B. The 35B has an elegant and simple solid front axle (also a solid axle in the rear). I have always admired this idea, and think it would be neat to have a modern, light, street roadster with a well-controlled solid front axle. Even leaf springs would be OK, if the axle was well-located with track rods, panhard rod, etc. Same thing in the back. But I'd use gas-shocks and disc brakes (instead of the friction shocks and mechanical brakes of the Bugatti).
You might faint when you hear what type of suspension I like (but maybe not....my first street car was a '56 MGA, so we may be on a similar wavelength).
Anyway, my favorite true classic roadster is the Bugatti Type 35B. The 35B has an elegant and simple solid front axle (also a solid axle in the rear). I have always admired this idea, and think it would be neat to have a modern, light, street roadster with a well-controlled solid front axle. Even leaf springs would be OK, if the axle was well-located with track rods, panhard rod, etc. Same thing in the back. But I'd use gas-shocks and disc brakes (instead of the friction shocks and mechanical brakes of the Bugatti).
MattP
Jedi Knight
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by aeronca65t:
Steve:
You might faint when you hear what type of suspension I like (but maybe not....my first street car was a '56 MGA, so we may be on a similar wavelength).
Anyway, my favorite true classic roadster is the Bugatti Type 35B. The 35B has an elegant and simple solid front axle (also a solid axle in the rear). I have always admired this idea, and think it would be neat to have a modern, light, street roadster with a well-controlled solid front axle. Even leaf springs would be OK, if the axle was well-located with track rods, panhard rod, etc. Same thing in the back. But I'd use gas-shocks and disc brakes (instead of the friction shocks and mechanical brakes of the Bugatti).<hr></blockquote>
That would shave some off the price, I think. But on such a small car wouldn't clearance be a bit of an issue?
MattP
Steve:
You might faint when you hear what type of suspension I like (but maybe not....my first street car was a '56 MGA, so we may be on a similar wavelength).
Anyway, my favorite true classic roadster is the Bugatti Type 35B. The 35B has an elegant and simple solid front axle (also a solid axle in the rear). I have always admired this idea, and think it would be neat to have a modern, light, street roadster with a well-controlled solid front axle. Even leaf springs would be OK, if the axle was well-located with track rods, panhard rod, etc. Same thing in the back. But I'd use gas-shocks and disc brakes (instead of the friction shocks and mechanical brakes of the Bugatti).<hr></blockquote>
That would shave some off the price, I think. But on such a small car wouldn't clearance be a bit of an issue?
MattP
aeronca65t
Great Pumpkin
Offline
Matt:
On a proper, classic roadster, the (solid) axle could go in *front* of the engine (so clearance would not be an issue). Bug 35B:
On a proper, classic roadster, the (solid) axle could go in *front* of the engine (so clearance would not be an issue). Bug 35B:
OP
MGA Steve
Jedi Warrior
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by MattP:
I would add in something about ditching the back glass as well. In the design, the top would either remove or flip and lock into a sort of fast-back position. <hr></blockquote>
Matt,
The original 911 Targa (1966-67) had a flexible, zip-out rear window just like ones on a convertible top. However, you still had the safety of the built-in roll-bar. This was before Porsche built a 911 cabriolet and before the first 914.
Nial, your front suspension would be simple and cheap, but would the automotive critics "kill the buzz" by claiming it was too old fashioned, especially when compared to the Japanese sports cars?
Steve
I would add in something about ditching the back glass as well. In the design, the top would either remove or flip and lock into a sort of fast-back position. <hr></blockquote>
Matt,
The original 911 Targa (1966-67) had a flexible, zip-out rear window just like ones on a convertible top. However, you still had the safety of the built-in roll-bar. This was before Porsche built a 911 cabriolet and before the first 914.
Nial, your front suspension would be simple and cheap, but would the automotive critics "kill the buzz" by claiming it was too old fashioned, especially when compared to the Japanese sports cars?
Steve
MattP
Jedi Knight
Offline
I always wondered how the back window was handled in the 914. We could easily adapt the design to include that. Maybe go with side screens too. That could drop the weight a bit. Velcro might keep a little more of the weather out. I kinda like them, and have occasionally wondered about one.
I do supose that we could turn the engine 90 degrees and that would lower the forward profile, and might allow the room to slip the axle ahead of it. Doing it as far out in front as the Bugatti might disturb the Spritely lines a bit.
I do agree that the press would be a bit unkind to it, we would have to shut them up on the test track. We could hide the stats until after it started hitting the market.
I still need to check out the Suzuki website.
OK, I'm back. I have to admit to personally liking the sound of the double wishbone front myself. The multilink rear would be nice as well, but the cost of an IRS system like the XKE would be a bit steep. So it is either FWD or solid rear axle to stay in range.
MattP
[ 11-14-2003: Message edited by: MattP ]</p>
I do supose that we could turn the engine 90 degrees and that would lower the forward profile, and might allow the room to slip the axle ahead of it. Doing it as far out in front as the Bugatti might disturb the Spritely lines a bit.
I do agree that the press would be a bit unkind to it, we would have to shut them up on the test track. We could hide the stats until after it started hitting the market.
I still need to check out the Suzuki website.
OK, I'm back. I have to admit to personally liking the sound of the double wishbone front myself. The multilink rear would be nice as well, but the cost of an IRS system like the XKE would be a bit steep. So it is either FWD or solid rear axle to stay in range.
MattP
[ 11-14-2003: Message edited by: MattP ]</p>
bugimike
Yoda
Offline
Hold onto your bonnets chaps! I think we have what we are all talking about is just around the corner so to speak. I have been thinking for some time that (even though its not an AH) the little Lotus Elise (which they say arrives in the US next year after being around in Europe for a while now!) is the reincarnation, at least in spirit of the bugeye. It's spartan in appointments, has the right power to weight and dimensions and has the look to be a worthy successor in spirit to Donald Healey's concept of what the Sprite was to be, and in todays market, where the prices of new cars require the taking out a mortgage, the +/- $40k price tag almost sounds reasonable. Maybe once it gets here someone will work on a little customizing to give it some retro bugeye styling referrences. I believe it already comes with side curtains and a fold-up hood.
mike
mike
bugimike
Yoda
Offline
Hold onto your bonnets chaps! I think we have what we are all talking about is just around the corner so to speak. I have been thinking for some time that (even though its not an AH) the little Lotus Elise (which they say arrives in the US next year after being around in Europe for a while now!) is the reincarnation, at least in spirit of the bugeye. It's spartan in appointments, has the right power to weight and dimensions and has the look to be a worthy successor in spirit to Donald Healey's concept of what the Sprite was to be, and in todays market, where the prices of new cars require the taking out a mortgage, the +/- $40k price tag almost sounds reasonable. Maybe once it gets here someone will work on a little customizing to give it some retro bugeye styling referrences. I believe it already comes with side curtains and a fold-up hood.
mike
mike
OP
MGA Steve
Jedi Warrior
Offline
<blockquote><font size="1" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">quote:</font><hr>Originally posted by bugimike:
the +/- $40k price tag almost sounds reasonable.<hr></blockquote>
Mike,
A $40,000 Lotus Elise is a pretty big jump from the $13,000 to $17,000 Sprite or Midget that started this thread. Simple and cheap was the original premise--for $40,000, you could get a 350ZX, S2000, or TT Quattro. Not British, I realize, but considerably more than a 1.4L 4-cylinder Rover.
cheers:
Steve
the +/- $40k price tag almost sounds reasonable.<hr></blockquote>
Mike,
A $40,000 Lotus Elise is a pretty big jump from the $13,000 to $17,000 Sprite or Midget that started this thread. Simple and cheap was the original premise--for $40,000, you could get a 350ZX, S2000, or TT Quattro. Not British, I realize, but considerably more than a 1.4L 4-cylinder Rover.
cheers:
Steve