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Constant hot wire
- Thread starter AUSMHLY
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OP
AUSMHLY
Yoda
Offline
Sell the car by nightfall, don't temp me.
Update,
I figured out what that disconnected red wire was. It was the rear parking lights. The rear lights still worked with the break and directional. I'm glad I ran across that disconnected wire.
So, was it the problem? I don't know.
Everything is working as it should now. I was stoked for a while thinking I found the problem. I drove around tonight with the wire plugged back in. Flipping the toggles like a madman. Everything worked as it should.
I pull into the garage, disconnect the wire, go back out for a spin...everything works like it should. What? Flipping the toggle switches like I mean it. Can't get the courtesy lights to come on, like they use to. What?
OK, drive back in the garage and re-connect the wire. Out for a drive...things are good. Well except for my confidence that I can put a fork in it.
I'm glad everything is working the way it should. I should be thankful for that. I just wish I knew what was happening before. Ah Lucas electronics.
Cheers,
Roger
Carefull what you ask for Ed.
Wanna be todays Hero?
Your going up against Lucas.
Update,
I figured out what that disconnected red wire was. It was the rear parking lights. The rear lights still worked with the break and directional. I'm glad I ran across that disconnected wire.
So, was it the problem? I don't know.
Everything is working as it should now. I was stoked for a while thinking I found the problem. I drove around tonight with the wire plugged back in. Flipping the toggles like a madman. Everything worked as it should.
I pull into the garage, disconnect the wire, go back out for a spin...everything works like it should. What? Flipping the toggle switches like I mean it. Can't get the courtesy lights to come on, like they use to. What?
OK, drive back in the garage and re-connect the wire. Out for a drive...things are good. Well except for my confidence that I can put a fork in it.
I'm glad everything is working the way it should. I should be thankful for that. I just wish I knew what was happening before. Ah Lucas electronics.
Cheers,
Roger
Carefull what you ask for Ed.
Wanna be todays Hero?
Your going up against Lucas.
GregW
Yoda
Offline
Hi Roger,
I took another look at those door switches. They appear to be grounding switches correct? Two things I'd suggest. 1) The old valve-to-piston clearance trick. Get a piece of clay and stick it on the hinge pillar near the switch and close the door. The clay should squish down to the gap between the door and the pillar. This will give you the dimension you need to adjust the switch depth to (the picture looks like it isn't close enough to the door). I'd get it so the switch is almost completely compressed. B) If it is a ground switch, the hole you drilled looks very clean, maybe too much so. I'd strip down to bare metal and use some bulb grease to keep things from corroding. Maybe change those wire to black ones so 10 years from now it'll be clear at a glance. :wink:
I took another look at those door switches. They appear to be grounding switches correct? Two things I'd suggest. 1) The old valve-to-piston clearance trick. Get a piece of clay and stick it on the hinge pillar near the switch and close the door. The clay should squish down to the gap between the door and the pillar. This will give you the dimension you need to adjust the switch depth to (the picture looks like it isn't close enough to the door). I'd get it so the switch is almost completely compressed. B) If it is a ground switch, the hole you drilled looks very clean, maybe too much so. I'd strip down to bare metal and use some bulb grease to keep things from corroding. Maybe change those wire to black ones so 10 years from now it'll be clear at a glance. :wink:
OP
AUSMHLY
Yoda
Offline
Hey Greg,
I can always count on you!
You and I think alike. When installing the switch, I used detailing clay.
I made a bracket that the pin will compress against. I needed to know how far that bracket needs to go forward to compress the pin. Once made, I checked with the clay again. The pin compress' more than 1/4". As you know, it just needs to break contact from itself. How do I know the pin is working. How much travel does the door make till the light comes on when the door is opened. 6 inches of travel from the door edge to the rear wing edge.
The outside of the pin barrel is metal. The pin shaft is plastic. At the end of the shaft is a metal clip that contacts the outside of the metal pin barrel and a wire attaches to the metal clip. So, when the plastic pin is pushed in, no metal to metal contact.
The picture you speak of shows the door open. The bracket I made is now part of the check strap. (see photos below where I post the limit of 6 photos. They were thinking of me when they set a limit.) When the check strap is closed, it swings in close to the fender. The lights will come on as soon as the metal on the back of the pin touches the outer metal shaft of the pin when opening the door.
Somebody will figure this out. Heck it may be me.
Although I know you'd be up to the challenge in figuring it out before Ed, the Lucas slayer!
I can always count on you!
You and I think alike. When installing the switch, I used detailing clay.
I made a bracket that the pin will compress against. I needed to know how far that bracket needs to go forward to compress the pin. Once made, I checked with the clay again. The pin compress' more than 1/4". As you know, it just needs to break contact from itself. How do I know the pin is working. How much travel does the door make till the light comes on when the door is opened. 6 inches of travel from the door edge to the rear wing edge.
The outside of the pin barrel is metal. The pin shaft is plastic. At the end of the shaft is a metal clip that contacts the outside of the metal pin barrel and a wire attaches to the metal clip. So, when the plastic pin is pushed in, no metal to metal contact.
The picture you speak of shows the door open. The bracket I made is now part of the check strap. (see photos below where I post the limit of 6 photos. They were thinking of me when they set a limit.) When the check strap is closed, it swings in close to the fender. The lights will come on as soon as the metal on the back of the pin touches the outer metal shaft of the pin when opening the door.
Somebody will figure this out. Heck it may be me.
Although I know you'd be up to the challenge in figuring it out before Ed, the Lucas slayer!
GregW
Yoda
Offline
Too bad for you :laugh:AUSMHLY said:
Hmmm, a definite poser. Is this a kit that you put together? I didn't see this one (I think) on the Vellemen site. Maybe you have a cold solder point on the board that is breaking contact. I made an LED ring light for a camera that had that issue. Visually it looked good, but one LED failed to fire unless I put side pressure on it. I needed a magnifying glass to track down the problem.
OP
AUSMHLY
Yoda
Offline
Greg, I am so busted. Yes, this is the kit I soldered together. It's a Qualitykits. Here's the link:
https://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/K3500
Man oh man I was so trying to blame this on Lucas.
The thought that the circuit board is the bad child has occurred to me, a couple times! But then I remembered that I put it together, so it couldn't possibly be that circuit board. After all....I'm the man, I rock!
I'm strongly thinking that I may order another one. (As if I weakly think, duh).
https://store.qkits.com/moreinfo.cfm/K3500
Man oh man I was so trying to blame this on Lucas.
The thought that the circuit board is the bad child has occurred to me, a couple times! But then I remembered that I put it together, so it couldn't possibly be that circuit board. After all....I'm the man, I rock!
I'm strongly thinking that I may order another one. (As if I weakly think, duh).
Randy Forbes
Yoda
Offline
I built one (1) of their kits a while back; used it to run the aux fan in between autocross runs on my 01 M Rdstr (gray car).
Nowadays, I use the same timer to run the gray car's underhood l.e.d.s
Nowadays, I use the same timer to run the gray car's underhood l.e.d.s
Ed_K
Jedi Knight
Offline
So you have an adjustable electronic delay timer that draws only a very small mount of current when it is working and you have powered it from one the wires on the light switch.
... Observation ...
The fact that this is an electronic delay timing circut that is only drawing a little current when it is working means that it will be very susceptible to electrical noise in the power circuit path. Without getting out my BJ8 wiring diagram, I think the voltage regulator is in the path to the power of your new toy. If I had to guess what was going on without asking you to check some things, I would suspect that the electrical noise generated by your voltage regulator is causing the circut to be reset/triggered by noise. When you turn the lights on and off, that can also generate a noise spike.
There are some things that you can do to eliminate various parts of the system to see if the " bad behavour " goes away .
I'll just list them out as they come to mind. Before I do that, we should get the exact symptoms straight,( yes or no );
s1.. When the motor is off, you don't have any problems even if you operate the light switches ?
s2.. With the motor running, you don't have any problems UNLESS you operate the light switch ?
Things to try one at a time. Do your best to see if it fails after each step;
1. Disconnect the wires from both door switches and wrap the exposed wire with tape to prevent an accidental grounding. Test it. If it still fails, reconnect these wires and go to the next step. If it stops failing, one of the door switches is defective or not adjusted right.
2. Obtain a small 12 volt battery and disconnect the power and ground wires for the circuit from your car and attach to the small battery. Now your circuit board's power is isolated away from the car's electrical system.
Start your car and test. If it still fails then the circuit board has a problem but only when vibrated by the running engine. I suspect that it will work without any problems when attached to the separate 12 volt battery. If it does, then this proves that the source of your problem is electrical noise. If you confirm this, let me know and then we'll go through some things to see if we can get it to work .
Ed
... Observation ...
The fact that this is an electronic delay timing circut that is only drawing a little current when it is working means that it will be very susceptible to electrical noise in the power circuit path. Without getting out my BJ8 wiring diagram, I think the voltage regulator is in the path to the power of your new toy. If I had to guess what was going on without asking you to check some things, I would suspect that the electrical noise generated by your voltage regulator is causing the circut to be reset/triggered by noise. When you turn the lights on and off, that can also generate a noise spike.
There are some things that you can do to eliminate various parts of the system to see if the " bad behavour " goes away .
I'll just list them out as they come to mind. Before I do that, we should get the exact symptoms straight,( yes or no );
s1.. When the motor is off, you don't have any problems even if you operate the light switches ?
s2.. With the motor running, you don't have any problems UNLESS you operate the light switch ?
Things to try one at a time. Do your best to see if it fails after each step;
1. Disconnect the wires from both door switches and wrap the exposed wire with tape to prevent an accidental grounding. Test it. If it still fails, reconnect these wires and go to the next step. If it stops failing, one of the door switches is defective or not adjusted right.
2. Obtain a small 12 volt battery and disconnect the power and ground wires for the circuit from your car and attach to the small battery. Now your circuit board's power is isolated away from the car's electrical system.
Start your car and test. If it still fails then the circuit board has a problem but only when vibrated by the running engine. I suspect that it will work without any problems when attached to the separate 12 volt battery. If it does, then this proves that the source of your problem is electrical noise. If you confirm this, let me know and then we'll go through some things to see if we can get it to work .
Ed
OP
AUSMHLY
Yoda
Offline
Hello Ed,
I appreciate your help.
1. Motor off, no problems.
2. Motor running, only problems when the lights are switched on. Sometimes.
I assume you have been following my post from the beginning. It's been two days now and no problems at all. And I have been flipping those toggles so much it's second nature now. A couple days ago, when I flipped the directional, the courtesy lights came on. That may have been a fluke.
I'll try your suggestions about the door pins and the 12 volt battery.
I suspect it is the brown wire too. Hence my asking, is there another consistent hot wire I can tap into. Not in line of the voltage regulator.
My neighbor says, if it's been working fine for the last two days, why are you still pursuing this. Because I'm the kind of guy who wants to know, why it was doing that. Maybe it will happen again.
Cheers,
Roger
I appreciate your help.
1. Motor off, no problems.
2. Motor running, only problems when the lights are switched on. Sometimes.
I assume you have been following my post from the beginning. It's been two days now and no problems at all. And I have been flipping those toggles so much it's second nature now. A couple days ago, when I flipped the directional, the courtesy lights came on. That may have been a fluke.
I'll try your suggestions about the door pins and the 12 volt battery.
I suspect it is the brown wire too. Hence my asking, is there another consistent hot wire I can tap into. Not in line of the voltage regulator.
My neighbor says, if it's been working fine for the last two days, why are you still pursuing this. Because I'm the kind of guy who wants to know, why it was doing that. Maybe it will happen again.
Cheers,
Roger
Ed_K
Jedi Knight
Offline
You can try to pick up power from the battery side of the voltage regulator. That would mean connecting to the wire that runs from the starter solenoid to the voltage regulator. ... The other thing you could try is to install a noise suppression capacitor on the power lead of your circuit board to ground.
That is, if it acts up again.
That is, if it acts up again.