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TR2/3/3A Commission plate attachment

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charleyf

charleyf

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When I removed the commission plate ( TS30000) from the body, I noticed that the left hole is very poorly punched into the body. The right hole uses the original bottom right corner commission plate hole from the four that were original to the car. The two top (unused) holes with rivets still in them are present. My questions are 1) have others also found that the hole for the commission plate is punched as an extra hole next to the original hole, 2) Do cars up to some point like up to TS 60000 still have the four holes for the earlier larger commission plate, 3) the body plate number is similar as the plate is larger than what the original two holes allows and has another similar deeply punched hole on the left side ?
I suspect this is all original but it looks suspicious and I am wondering if I could be dealing with an earlier body than I think.
Charley
 
My car, TS46221L, is exactly as you have described. I suspect the extra holes ended when the blanking plate was deleted. Attached pictures are of my car before, during and after restoration. I chose to restore the original commission plate and the original rivets.









DSC00625.jpgDSC00850.jpgDSC01616.jpg
 
Bo,
Thanks for verifying that those holes are original. As to location the holes in my car look exactly like your pictures. The only difference is that in my car the bottom left hole does not look as if it were done professionally. It is deeply punched into the sheet metal. But then these plates were never intended to be removed, so who was to see the hole beneath it.

Charley
 
Yep, I just looked at my car and I have those holes too. When I was restoring the car, I remember wondering why those holes were there; never thought about the older large commission plate.
 
On the three TR's I've got kicking around, that one hole always hits the internal reinforcement for the firewall, so they all look pretty crooked and mangled. It seems they needed to get the plate as far left as possible, and then the corner fouls the back plate.

Long winded to say...the amateur looking hole is correct.
 
Speaking of commission plate attachment, I just had a very trying experience with the NC DMV about how my plate was attached. When you bring an old car into the state the DMV requires that it be inspected in order to get a new title. I had purchased a new plate with the intent of adding the TS number and replace the original that I still had. A local classic car guy strongly suggested that I reinstall the old one (at least for the time being) for the inspection. So I did. The inspector showed up and started 'going negative' as soon as he got under the hood and saw the plate. I had mounted it with bolts through the firewall. He explained that it was 'unacceptable' if the plate was not still secured with the 'original' rivets. I asked him how it would be practical to leave the original plate attached while doing a complete, frame off, down to the bare metal restoration of the body. He didn't have an answer. He recorded the engine number, asked about the frame number which I didn't have, and promptly left. After a lengthy wait, and a couple of unreturned calls to see what was up, the title finally showed up in the mail this week.

Now for the question... Is there any universal, or national policy regarding how a commission plate should be mounted? Should the original be left intact during a restoration? If Moss is selling new ones, it must be legal to replace a plate.

BTW, "Bo", I highly approve of the color selection you have made for your TR. I'm clearly biased.

DSC02118a.jpg

Rick...
 
Geo Hahn said:
And the world has one less purple TR3A.

Nice work on the rivets - were those a special (aircraft?) item - they look quite original with the solid center.
Click to expand...

Yep, the rivets were fun. I couldn't find anything that matched the original. Mark Macy gave me the solution. From the local hardware store get a large rivet that has the same size center pin as the original. Turn the head down to match the original rivet. I used a small metal lathe, but a drill press and emery cloth work fine. Install, but don't break the center pin. I cut the pin and filed the end flat. Take a punch and tap it flush with the rivet head. I enjoy the details!
 
RC64 said:
Now for the question... Is there any universal, or national policy regarding how a commission plate should be mounted? Should the original be left intact during a restoration? If Moss is selling new ones, it must be legal to replace a plate.

View attachment 36524

Rick...
Click to expand...

In every state I have lived in it is illegal to tamper with the VIN plate. They are permanently affixed at the factory (ie. rivets). You were lucky the Trooper overlooked the bolts. Even the judging guide specifies no deduction for the condition of the VIN plate.

The big 3 sell them because there is a market for them with those of us willing to break the law in the name of a flawless restoration. Kind of how it is legal to sell fireworks where I live, but illegal to shoot them.
 
John...

That's good to know. I guess now I'll have to find a set of 'original' rivets. :fat:

Rick...

PS... Anyone happen to have a close up photo of what the 'original' rivets looked like?
 
The closest I've come to the original look is to use Monel pop rivets, but stop before the stud breaks off. Then cut the stud off flush with a Dremel cutoff disc. Not perfect, but you'd have to see it next to an original to tell the difference.

 
I just recently sold a Healey at the Mecum auction in Kissimmee and the Mecum reps are very careful about vin tags. Newly restored resto-mod pickup trucks had nice shiny new vin tags on the door jam - every one of these had a warning disclosure from Mecum about a possible VIN issue.
Keep the original tag and attach as original - it may cost you a sale one day!
 
I don't have the reference handy, but as I recall there is a provision in federal law (motor vehicle code) for being able to remove the plate for restoration. IIRC, it said you had to have a state representative present when you removed the plate; and have them reattach it with special rivets. I don't know anyone who has actually done it that way, though. Stewart's law : It's easier to get forgiveness than permission.

Bolts or screws are strictly a no-no; but they will usually overlook pop rivets on older cars if there isn't anything else obvious.

BTW, Rick, I think you actually got lucky. CA refused to let me use the original commission number, and issued a new one, complete with hokey looking "beer can" tag and rosette rivets poorly crimped.
 
Thanks everyone for all the feedback. I guess I should have asked a few questions before I jumped to my inappropriate conclusion. My apologies to that young man who was apparently trying to give me a break. My original plate will be 'properly', and 'permanently' riveted in short order.
 
Purple. I don't know what to say.

I found odd holes in mine too. ACE has some rivets that you can "pound thru", but you need to support the inside while doing it. I think it looks better than a pop rivet, and not much more trouble.

Dealing with the DMV can be difficult. Here in Texas, once I finally was able to provide a signed title with a bill of sale signed and dated the same (when I was 3 years old) to me, they didn't even need to see the car or the VIN plate. I did have to sit on the bench and wait while they checked with the person in charge, since the paper work was so old. (I had to sit there on the group W bench with the other perverts while they checked out my story.) It's registered now and I have the title to match in my name. I felt like I was bordering on legal, but once it didn't show up stolen or registered anywhere else, I was good to go. Another state might be more of a problem, or less...

JIC you missed the previous reference, we had fun there on the bench, filling out the paper work and playing with the pencils on the bench.
 
And did you tell them the story of the 27 8x10 color glossy photographs with circles and arrows and a paragraph on the back of each one?
 
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