College Research Paper

[tk421]

Hello everyone,

So I have a college research paper to do. It’s not for a long time away, but I am thinking about doing it on the British car industry. I would need a thesis statement (which is arguable), so I am thinking about proving that BL era cars were better than what Americans think. I would prove this by using racing statistics, fuel economy, car prices at the time, and possibly production numbers. I would “review” the following cars;

1. AC Cobra
2. Jaguar XJS
3. Jaguar E-type/XKE
4. Ford Escort RS Cosworth
5. Ford Sierra RS Cosworth
6. 1st Generation Jaguar XJ6?
7. Ford Transit Van?
8. TVR?
9. Triumph Spitfire 1500?
10. 1959-99 Mini?

The ones with the question marks aren’t set in stone. I would love to include TVRs, Morgans and Caterhams, but I do not know about how I could prove they are “good” because I do not know about those companies racing histories. Any help anyone can provide will be extremely helpful, and I am very open to suggestions. Thanks.

 

[JPSmit]

Interesting thesis. I'm not sure whether you should try to prove that British cars were "just as good" or whether American cars were "just as bad." By that I mean that especially compared to today, all cars of that era were poorly made, prone to rust, had carb issues (not fuel injection) etc. etc. So, as much as guys like me look at cars from the 60's and 70's with rose tinted glasses, names like Pinto, Vega, Aspen, are just another part of the same boat.

That said, one thing that is undeniable is that there were issues that affected European cars in general and British cars specifically which diminished them on this side of the pond. I am thinking in particular about inadequate dealer networks and mechanics unfamiliar with servicing them. I am thinking about cars that were underpowered for North American roads, under protected from North American salt on roads and under heated (or air conditioned) for North American climates. Also, many of these cars (even more Fiat and Citroen and the like) were "driver's cars" meant to be maintained in a way most North American drivers were both unaccustomed to and unwilling to do.

Finally there were some issues specific to British cars, particularly the labour unrest of the 70's which brought the car industry to its knees and which produced some truly horrific cars in terms of build quality. Also, there were management issues, particularly about rationalizing production as the industry passed into government hands and swallowed ever more manufacturers. Finally there was no money for R&D or updating so, for instance much of the technology in my 1976 Midget was more than twenty years old when new and even the design was almost 20 years old. Same with Triumph, same with Austin and so on.

So, I admire your courage and would love to see your results but you might have a job ahead of you!

Good Luck! Keep us posted

 

[tk421]

Thanks for the input. I get what your saying, but the problem I am running into is what can I argue? I would like to keep the paper about the cars, not about British politics, the 3 day week and strikes. I thought about the idea of maybe saying that the decline of a nation's car industry marks economic descent, and parralelling BL's problems to the Big 3's bankruptcies, but thats a paper on economics, not horsepower, cornering ability and power to weight ratios.

 

[JPSmit]

That's true, sadly horsepower and cornering ability and power to weight often have more to do with economics. That being said, another angle might be to look at racing data of the period - at least then you are comparing apples to apples and not just anecdotal (my car's better than your car) information. If you expand your study beyond who actually won (fastest= car+crew+driver) to who finished which then averages our car+ driver + crew but more importantly adds reliability, you might be able to get somewhere.

 

[tk421]

I think you hit the nail on the head. I think Le Mans would be a good place to start, because it's one of the very few places where it is American vs Euro cars. And luckily for me, the last American car to win was the Ford GT40, and Jaguar and Bentley have been steady winners since the race started.

 

[Steve]

I am probably unique among the members in that I had extensive experience in driving the Ford Transit van, very often at high speed..... Any assistance I can render please let me know.

 

[swift6]

How about British Saloon car racing from the mid 60's. Big block American cars (Ford Galaxies) vs both large (Jaguar MkII's) and small (Lotus-Ford Cortina's). International grids and all about power to weight ratios, cornering, braking etc...

 

[tk421]

How about British Saloon car racing from the mid 60's. Big block American cars (Ford Galaxies) vs both large (Jaguar MkII's) and small (Lotus-Ford Cortina's). International grids and all about power to weight ratios, cornering, braking etc...

Is that the British Touring Car Championship? And I might add the Transit van in. Imagine a world without vans, minivans, and the SUV.

 

[Guest]

How about the price difference b/w British classics and American classic cars due to perceived shortcommings on British cars that American cars suffer from also. And/or the fact that out of all automotive cars and enthusiast, Britsh car owners drive their "unreliable" cars more than American/ or any other classic car owner groups do.


Oooow! Do a comparison of online car forum civility b/w American and British cars sites! :wink:

 

[tk421]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions, but the more I read, the less likely I am to write about British cars exactly. But, what I am realising is that the cars that roll off the assembly line are mirror's of a country's economic, political, and social situation.

The XJS is going to be the headline example. It was going to be midengined, but that wasn't completed. The buttresses were there for a engine in the middle, but no one bothered to take them out later. I think I might also write about the Citroen 2CV, the Mercedes 300 Grosser, the Volkswagen Rabbit pickup, and I need around two more. I can't come up for something for 1950's America or the 21st Century. Original Ford F1 truck? Aston Martin DB9? Bugatti Veyron?

 

[JPSmit]

I'd like to thank everyone for their suggestions, but the more I read, the less likely I am to write about British cars exactly. But, what I am realising is that the cars that roll off the assembly line are mirror's of a country's economic, political, and social situation.

The XJS is going to be the headline example. It was going to be midengined, but that wasn't completed. The buttresses were there for a engine in the middle, but no one bothered to take them out later. I think I might also write about the Citroen 2CV, the Mercedes 300 Grosser, the Volkswagen Rabbit pickup, and I need around two more. I can't come up for something for 1950's America or the 21st Century. Original Ford F1 truck? Aston Martin DB9? Bugatti Veyron?

which may bring you around to cars that mobilized their countries - VW Bug, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 500 Model T etc. Perhaps and compare them to the cars that are now mobilizing China and India

 

[DrEntropy]

ummm...racing history of English cars in the '60's?

MG (LeMans) and LOTUS (F-1 and Indy)! Chapman had won more Grands Prixs by 1974 than Enzo, with a history about half as long in the Circus. Even multiple Indy wins. His engineering successes changed the whole concept of open-wheel racing cars here in the Colonies.

Power-to-weight ratio? A PRODUCTION Series 3 Lotus Elan had one nearly the equal of most motorcycles of the era.

MGB's were built like tanks. Kingpins and A-arms up front, understressed diff in the back. A nearly 50-50 weight distro and unibody from the bulkhead rearward. Big-arse coconuts an' plates in front for braking when most US production cars were still on drums and shoes.

It wasn't lack of design engineering/innovation wot chopped the knees off'n the Brit car industry, for certain.

 

[tk421]

[/quote] which may bring you around to cars that mobilized their countries - VW Bug, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 500 Model T etc. Perhaps and compare them to the cars that are now mobilizing China and India [/quote]

I've settled on a list of mix of upper class and normal cars.


1. 1907 Rolls Royce Silver Ghost
2. 1938 Mercedes 770 Grosser
3. Citroen 2CV (1948 - 1990)
4. Jaguar XJS (1975 – 1996)
5. Toyota Prius (1997 - Current)
6. Bugatti Veyron Super Sport (2010 - Current)
7. 1959 GAZ Chaika
8. 1963 VEB Sachsenring Trabant 601
9. 1953 Buick Roadmaster Estate Wagon
10. Ford F-Series (1948 – Current)
11. Austin 7 & Variants (American Austin, American Bantam, BMW Dixi, Rosengart, Lotus)

I chose the Austin 7 over the Ford Model T because the Austin was license built in more places, started Lotus, came in more colors than black, and is recognized as having the first "normal" interior layout. Each of these cars represents their era, their culture, and the country that made them.

 

[Guest]

which may bring you around to cars that mobilized their countries - VW Bug, Citroen 2CV, Fiat 500 Model T etc. Perhaps and compare them to the cars that are now mobilizing China and India

The Bug didn't mobilize it's country, it mobilized the world!

I'd have to write it on the Bug, but I'm definatly bias.

 

[swift6]

How about British Saloon car racing from the mid 60's. Big block American cars (Ford Galaxies) vs both large (Jaguar MkII's) and small (Lotus-Ford Cortina's). International grids and all about power to weight ratios, cornering, braking etc...

Is that the British Touring Car Championship? And I might add the Transit van in. Imagine a world without vans, minivans, and the SUV.

BSCC here is a video from Crystal Palace, 1964
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bWp-0TuY4Sk

 

[Bayless]

Great video. Tough little Fords. 'Course it don't hurt to have Jim Clark driving.

 

[JPSmit]

Great video. Tough little Fords. 'Course it don't hurt to have Jim Clark driving.

great video indeed - I also think my life would be much better if I had that soundtrack playing in the background, especially when driving.

 

[DrEntropy]

When 'smits was using the Mk-I LoCort as her daily, it had the black nose ala JClark. I thought it'd be a bit too much to slap the 57 on it. :wink:

 

[Bayless]

Naaa, shoulda done it Doc.